Ok, now I know it's voodoo

[Otter]

Remember my wondering if my milk jar was cursed?
So, I have several containers for milk, 3 glass and 3 <gasp> plastic. Except for the now-retired cursed jar, they hold 1 milking's worth of milk, each. Soured on my jar experience, I used just the plastic for several days and then started using the glass again.

Assuming I don't use up all the milk beforehand (which happens a lot) and my containers are full,I only ever use 3 containers at a time - I NEVER have milk n the house more then 36 hours old; ie: this morning, my oldest milk was from night before last. It was used for the bottle babies before I milked and the teeny bit that is left goes to dogs, cats or pigs.

Now, DD hates to wash glass jars so I do it myself. Which goes; scrub with soap, rinse well, fill with hot water and bleach, let sit till cool, scrub with soap again and rinse, rinse, rinse.
This is SOP for glass jars, and why DD hates doing them. Having done it myself, and confident that they were CLEAN, I strained the morning's milk and put it in a glass jar.
The next day, when pulling the jar forward in my 3-container-rotation and saw a layer of cream on the top.
I'm milking Nubians - this is normal.
So I took a spoon and went to skim it ... and discovered the whole jar is that consistency and - smell, taste - sure enough, the whole jar is yogurt consistency sour cream.
I pulled out the front container - which is milk that is 1 milking older and in <horror> plastic - and it is FINE. Sweet, creamy, lovely milk.

Now, for some reason, all THREE of my glass jars are souring milk in 12 hours while milk can last for 36 happily in plastic containers.
It is not the lids, as I quit using them. I can leave the plastic containers open - there is no difference. All the containers are right next to each other, storage is no different.

At this point, the glass jars have been washed with bleach, baking soda, vinegar and lots and lots and LOTS of just plain old hot soapy water. The dish sponge is new. They've been put out in the sun, they've been air-dried, they've been towel dried. One has been used for this purpose for months previously, before catching whatever bad ju-ju infected the rest of them.

I'm starting to think that I used the plastic for a while and they just got offended

[quiltstuff]

These were pickle jars? I have been told that glass is actually porous, just not enough to leak any liquid out. So there may still be pickle residue in the glass in spite of all the scrubbing.

[andabigmac]

I made sauerkraut and put it in a glass jar. The bottle was fine but the lids were unusable again or I'd gt the results you are. I even tried boiling them. They were those white plastic lids that fit on mason jars. Have you tried changing lids?

[chewie]

OP said the lids aren't being used. you got me, this is a good one. ??? toss em all and get some half gallon new canning jars.

[CarolT]

Get the stuff that cleans milkstone out of things. I bet you use hot water on your first scrub. Always rinse very, very well with cold water so the hot doesn't make the milkstone set to the glass.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Are you on a water well? Have you had your water tested?

Also, I always use an acid based dairy wash. The baking soda won't get out accumulated milk fat and protein, and this leads to a bacteria laden accumulation known (as mentioned above) as milk stone. Think of it as plaque on your teeth.

I just re-read your post. You towel dry. BIG NO NO in the dairy business. ALL buckets, storage jars, etc., are supposed to be air dried, upside down. NEVER touch the inside with anything.

I would not use vinegar.

I do not use hot water in the washing process. It is my understanding that the cleaning products are designed to be used in cold water to avoid milk stone formation. Hot water is rinse only.

We never, ever use a sponge in the kitchen. Truly nasty little bacteria growing devices.

[Alice In TX/MO]

This one in BIG jugs to dilute:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/...=&cm_vc=-10005

This one from Hoegger:
http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/xcart/Foa...Detergent.html

[Otter]

Alice, I boil and change sponges regularly. I've also used washcloths. First thing I did was chuck out the old sponge. It drives DH nuts the way I toss out sponges - and totally grosses me out how long he would keep one!

My first wash is in cold water, because hot water opens the pores of anything and can set stains (it's why so many people's tupperware is permanently orange after tomato sauce), and then I wash again in hot, and rinse in hot, to open the pores.

I don't have a cleaner specific for milk, but I've used DH's one for brewing; http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/r...4/category/19/

I towel dried to see if something could be settling into the jars in the drying process or if there could be something on the drying rack (as I put them upside down to dry - but hey, dust could float up there. And I did scrub and bleach the drying rack), but generally, all dishes are air-dried. I've also tried putting the milk jars out into the sun. I've tried about everything I can think of!! (though I do appreciate the suggestions)
I've tossed all lids
City water
They were all pickle jars - but some of them have been milk jars for months, the oldest over a year, the newest a couple of weeks ago.

It IS a puzzler!! Maybe I offended the Brownies?
Time to spend the $$ on brand-new jars and start setting a saucer of milk by the back door, and beer at the new moon. Or is it the full moon? never a bad time for beer I suppose

OH! Could it be the fridge? Moisture will condense on glass, but not the plastic - maybe there's something floating around in there that's condensing on the glass???? Oh, eyuwwww!! at the thought!!!
We were hoping to get a new fridge this year - maybe we should bump that up the list. Off to clean the old one...

[quiltstuff]

Maybe you should sell them as "Miracle Yoghurt Making Jars"?

How about fat? (The milk has fat in it....cream....yum). Found this on a thread on another forum talking about lids but it might apply in your situation.... "I've found a way to remove most odors from lids; at least every odor I've tried it on. The answer is fat! If an odor isn't removed through washing, it's probably not water soluble. However, lots of things that don't dissolve in water do dissolve in fat. So put some fat (I use lard, but I'm sure other fats would work) in your lid, leave it in a warm spot for a couple of days, then wipe clean and wash. I've had great luck with pickle and salsa lids, so far. "

Might be worth a try. Still think you should sell them as miracle jars for a gazillion dollars.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Have you tested the temperature in the fridge? Are the jars at the lowest part of the fridge and NOT on the door (the warmest place)?

I feel like a CSI.

[ani's ark]

I have wide mouth glass bottles that V8 vegetable juice comes in (acid) with coated steel lids. Our fridge is old and the temperature erratic, but a new one is not on the 2013 budget! It's sure a puzzler...

After HT advice on my funky milk last year, I use separate 'dairy' bottle brush, dish brush and dishrack for milking gear and I do one hot soapy wash with those, rinse well and leave to drain upside down overnight in the kitchen. Then in the morning before milking I boil the kettle and rinse them once more very hot, keeping the boiled water for my teat wash. I got a commerical acid wash solution but because its so pricey I only use it about once a month to get rid of any milkscale.
Last year the milk went off after a few days, now keeps for over a week (hardly ever lasts that long) and I'm not doing anything different - I can only put it down to my more practised milking technique now drops less hair (eeww) in the bucket. Could the contamination be happening somewhere else in the milking routine? Or is it ONLY with glass jars? Too strange...good luck fixing this problem...

[Otter]

Ani's Ark, it is ONLY with the glass jars. So I guess the clear solution is to just only use my plastic ones.

LOL, Alice, it's better then one of those brain-tease puzzles, isn't it?
As for the fridge - it is lashing out in it's death throes. Warm spots, cold spots, rain on the top shelf and - if the fridge is relatively full and the freezer relatively empty - switching functions, so everything in the fridge part freezes solid, right up to the door, while everything in the freezer thaws.
We dance an intricate dance, the fridge and I, as I try to keep it from playing it's tricks and it begins new ones.

But still, I'll have sour cream in a glass jar and sweet milk in a plastic container next to it - milk that is older. So unless the fridge is effecting the glass in a way that it doesn't effect the plastic - which it might because of temperature transfer and condensation.

It would seem the solution is to ditch the glass entirely. At least until we've put Cybil the Fridge out of it's misery. And then try again with brand new jars and made-for-milk washing product.

Quiltstuff can have all three of the Magical Sour-Creaming Jars for only half a gazillion dollars! Then, she can sell 2, and have a nice profit of a gazillion and a half bucks and Magic Jar to keep!

[ani's ark]

Hey, whatever works right?
If you've found a solution, quit banging your head on a wall and enjoy your magic yoghurt jars and your plastic milk jugs. Problem solved
I hear you on the fridge issues. I do that dance, with an offgrid power system added in its tricky. Noone should dare to housesit at our place what with milking and the all little quirks like that!

[aart]

Do you use the exact same wash and rinse procedure on the plastic as the glass?

Sorry if I missed it. I'm thinking its one of the chemicals used on the glass that may not be used on the plastic because you've had no problems on the plastic.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I think it's the fridge. If you are putting your fresh milk in there after you milk and strain it, the glass jars are retaining warmth longer, and you're making yogurt in them by the time the milk is cold. Plastic walled containers are thinner and less likely to retain heat.

I think. Maybe. Where's Hodges when you need him? Or Abby?

[Pony]

I was going to suggest using the brewing cleaner, but you are already doing that.

I would think that the boggle is in the fridge...

Anyway, Nick came across a WAY cheaper - but equally effective - substitute for the commercial brew cleaner. 2 parts Oxyclean Free to one part TSP-90. Removes milkstone and all sorts of resistant stains. 1 tablespoon to 1 1/2 gallons warm water.

[CarolT]

Cool! Thanks Pony!!

[LFRJ]

YOu mentioned cleaning with vinegar. I'm just wondering if that isn't a key piece of your puzzle here. Yes, glass is porous - if nothing else, the surface is landscaped with microscopic scratches and irregularities. I'm not a chemist, but I'm wondering if there isn't a chemical indicator that you could use with distilled water or something in the jar, and see if it changes color, which would indicate acid being retailed..

I like your theory Alice, but yogurt (cream etc) requires some heat, doesn't it? I know true yogurt needs a good deal of thermal. I would think other food items in the fridge would also be tell tale signs. However, could be a specific bacteria that happens to be present in the fridge? and is able to permeate the glass???. I once asked my food scientist friend how we figured out how to make cheese centuries before we understood germ theory. She explained that first, this is precisely why there were apprenticeships - so that a student could learn to replicate the cheese-making steps PRECISELY as the cheese master used, and second - that they figured out that some "caves" simply made bleu cheese (i'm simplifying it here) but the point being, they didn't know why, couldn't see anything different, but they learned that some environments worked - (later understanding that that particular "cave" or environment happened to have the right bacteria present). Just another thought. Somehow, conditions are right though. I kinda like this puzzle.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I've made yogurt and buttermilk at room temperature. Granted, the time I made yogurt at room temperature was in August in Texas, ..... but..... we don't know what bacteria is in the voodoo jars.

Yes, I agree with that jar being a "cave" that is culturing the milk. The fridge issue is part of the equation.

[LFRJ]

Well, maybe I'd just save and label the jars for easy cheese making. Consider them gifts from the "cheese gods".