well that was horrible-graphic

pygmybabies · #1 03/22/13, 10:10 AM

Got home last evening to find zoe, not "in bed" she was over on the other side of the fence where they sleep,I moved over and came in and ate dinner, this is now about 11 pm didnt sit and watch tv went right back out, husband and I moved her and her daughter into a kidding pen and then checked everyone else loaded hay feeders filled up waters checked on the other babies born that day, checked the hiefer that looks like she is close. All along Zoe is getting more and more uncomfortable...of course we are freezing, telling her to please hurry up, I have already been out here all day with cinnamon.
Finally after switching positions, grunting, blah blah blah, the real pushing starts. RIght as my husband decided to cuddle with SPring our new boer baby under the heat lamp, Out comes a head first no feet, we give her a second but no she cant do it on her own....she is pygmy, so husband, who is emt firefighter and deliverd human babies can only get two fingers in between her and the head, so yes i hand santized and went in, had a TERRIBLE time getting to the legs. The head hung out for a while, and we cleaned it out, it was breathing. In again and again, finally after literally feeling sick to my stomach, we had a baby. YAY happy days, now we wait, she is not interested in pushing for a while just wants to lick the baby, that I have now moved under the heat lamp and dried with paper towels. Finally she pushes and here comes number two. All is well! Now all the originally pushing started around 1245-100am. now I is at least an hour after first one and I am worried she keeps pushing but nothing is happening. My husband said let nature take its course. I was afraid she is closing up. SO I come inside to look on HT for what it was that you give them to make them contract and stay in labor, By now it is probably 230-300 am, and I am to the point of vomiting, Not sure why. All I could think of was CMPK, so I grabbed that and thought well hopefully it cant hurt it we have to get this other baby out.
I went in and in and in. Was so confused, couldnt figure out what in the world I was feeling, I cried I gagged etc. It wasnt gross I was just so scared for momma. Husband could no way get in, so I figured this is it. I gave up. Then I said well I am going to lose this doe for sure so do whatever I can to get this out. SO FINALLY I get a leg, yep just one and then I cant figure out what I was feeling, now i know it was its spine...I kept saying the head is way down under her pelvic bone and there was no way to get it out, I tried to turn it etc. All the time feeling horrible as the doe screams with each movement...I feel so hopeless. I accepted defeat. Husband encouraged me again, get the baby out, there is a chance we can save her otherwise we for sure lose her. I did....got the leg out a little farther she pushed a little more and I got another leg. Head was tucked down with its chin on its chest, so finally we just pulled it out that way. Now that I know its position, if it ever happens again , I think I would try to push the baby back, but remember she is a pygmy and there isnt much room to get a hand (arm) in there. Baby comes out, mom is a mess!. Baby came out legs first head tucked up to chin, we just decided to pull. Baby is dead. I said dont give up it might be alive, no it isnt showing any signs at all. he lays it down, I get mucas out and rub it, I think I saw a breath, he says no way. I rub shake harder. tuen it upside down, etc, it is alive, WHAT???? no way! it eyes kept rolling in its head and I put it under heat lamp and got a dog pottie pad and rubbed and rubbed it.
He went back inside and got antibiotic and more paper towels. Mom has no energy now, we have given babies two squirts or the kid and lamb drench and mom has had 4 squirts of goat drench. Even the dying baby was given some, When he comes back outside to give shot, he says its still alive and I said yes I have never stopped rubbing it, all the time zoe has her head on my leg, not licking babies not talking but almost asleep.. I am so worrried about her. Finally we try to get the babies to take some colustrum from a bottle, they got a little, not sick one though. Left momma with the two babies that walking around and brought the other one inside layed in a laundry basket and put a shirt on it. It seems better trying to lift its head. 4 am now, I have to lay down now, this has been a long 48 hours of goat births. Got back up 730...baby is trying to stand in the basket, try to give a bottle, might have gotten some down her....She is alive THIS IS ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE! Went out and Zoe really doesnt look like she has moved in 3 1/2 hours. Try to get the babies to take a bottle, no thank you. Come back in and get the baby out of basket and she stands on the floor, tries to walk, almost. Go back out at 830 momma is standing, two babies are nursing (had given mom more drench about 30 minutes ago) take out the inside baby and I get it to nurse.....I dont know how this will turn out, but her name will be MIRACLE even if she doesnt make it.
As you can imagine I am so tired and now emotional, I will accept whatever happens I know that is farm life.
PLEASE tell me what it is that I should have given her to keep her opened up to get that last baby out?
What else should I give her ( the momma) to help her. I dont have banamine or Bose but I do have stuff.
Thanks!!!
Now Zoe daughter from last year is also pregnant and I think might be today, not sure if I can handle this. She is smaller, but not full pygmy, some nigerian so a little more slender....
Never again will I breed pygmys. If she makes it she will be retired like MUffin, who had a similar expeirence two years ago, and vet had to cut babies out.
Thanks to you guys on here and things you have discussed I was able to do things I didnt think I would EVER be able to do!!!
A MILLION THANKS!!!

Back to the barn to check on the family.

farmrbrown · #2 03/22/13, 10:18 AM

Sounds like an incredible experience! Glad you had the guts to see it thru!

CarolT · #3 03/22/13, 10:22 AM

Oxytocin promotes contractions, but with the head down and tucked under, I don't think it was a lack of contractions that was the problem. The CMPK helps, too. I think you did everything right, I know it was hard and so glad for the outcome! If that last one has a suck reflex, I think you have a very good chance.

BTW, make sure there are no bucks around if you plan to retire her. They have ways of getting around your plans.

KrisD · #4 03/22/13, 10:31 AM

Oh wow! CMPK is correct to help a sluggish labor. Also give mom some molasses water for a bit of quick energy. Give Miracle some BoSE. My does love bananas when they are in labor or shortly after. Lute rubbed on cervix that are not open will help dilate them.

punchiepal · #5 03/22/13, 10:33 AM

Glad you made it through.
She may have not been closing down, just that nothing "hard" (why it works best when heads are 1st) pushing on the cervix to open things up more. The other night with the stillborn of Val's, it was hard to get out b/c it was all soft tissue so nothing hard to keep her opened up right then. Bumping/bouncing will sometimes bring up those extra kids for me too.
You are thinking of oxytocin. Not sure I would have given it here. It wasn't that she wasn't contracting it was that there was nothing right there to contract against. KWIM? Making a uterus contract when it can't do it's job properly can cause it to rupture.

wintrrwolf · #6 03/22/13, 10:39 AM

holy wow!!

yarrow · #7 03/22/13, 10:56 AM

you did good....what you might be thinking of is lute we mix it with ob lube on a gloved hand and rub it into the cervix...AND give cmpk.....you did so well to judt keep at it...it is a doe and kids only chsnce when things go wrong...the NEED someone to keep trying...

congrats...we are all proud of you
susie, mo ozarks

mahnah · #8 03/22/13, 11:10 AM

You did good will send lots of good energy that Miracle and family all progress and are very healthy

pygmybabies · #9 03/22/13, 11:13 AM

This is this morning. Where do you get lute? Can you get at tractor supply and what about BOSE

http://youtu.be/xeFAgWnqH90

pygmybabies · #10 03/22/13, 11:15 AM

http://youtu.be/huTFtcy5bs0

pygmybabies · #11 03/22/13, 11:17 AM

Sorry about that. I didnt meand to attach the first video....where do you get lute and bose

Sparkie · #12 03/22/13, 11:22 AM

Exactly why we will never ever have pygmies again. Your story brings back horrible memories.

ShadowfaxFarm · #13 03/22/13, 11:22 AM

Good job!! what an amazing story.

yarrow · #14 03/22/13, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pygmybabies

Sorry about that. I didnt meand to attach the first video....where do you get lute and bose

lute and bose are both prescription drugs...you will have to get the from a vet (Livestock vet..most dog/cat vets won't have it on hand)

susie, mo ozarks

dozedotz · #15 03/22/13, 12:25 PM

You were fantastic! What a night...just the exhaustion from the long hours was enough without the awful birthing! Congrats on keeping it all together and so happy you have your doe and your babies!!!

ak wilderness · #16 03/22/13, 01:17 PM

This is our first year with goats kidding and we gave them raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar throughout pregnancy, the minerals in it are supposed to make birthing easier, i can't complain it seemed to work. my two nigerians had no problems and it was supper fast, one was even a first freshener. It's supossed to work on people too. You did great and not giving up.

wintrrwolf · #17 03/22/13, 01:44 PM

loved both video's

LFRJ · #18 03/22/13, 01:48 PM

My hat is off to you Pygmy Babies. .I really liked what Yarrow said, "(sometimes) a doe and kid's only chance when things go wrong is for someone to just keep trying"

This is our first year kidding. We raise Kinders - whose ancestory, as you may know, are Pygmys. If our breeder has done her job, she has culled for easy kiddings - and I trust she has. Just the same, stories like yours put me on edge.

I do wonder what happened to the Pygmy breed that has caused all of this. Seriously, they are originally meat goats from the African continent (I believe). There's no way they would have made it to this century if horrible kidding problems had plagued the breed to the extent that they do now, and to the point that they have such a poor reputation. Too bad. I know they are an introduction into goats for many.

Kudos and congratulations on such strength and courage as you now know you have!

anita_fc · #19 03/22/13, 01:49 PM

Kudos on the difficult delivery. I can definitely relate!

Since you went in so many times, I would definitely put mom on a course of antibiotics. Also, I would put PrepH all around and on the vulva at least twice a day.

I would also give her a drink of warm molasses (or Karo) water and/or another dose of nutri-drench.

I almost quit breeding pygmies, too, after my first experience (c-section on one; husband pulled the second.) I have a wonderful mentor/coach, however. She talked me through the last difficult delivery on the phone. She is very knowledgable and able to help me recognize body parts that I'm feeling. Another breeder on an all-pygmy list suggested closing your eyes to help with concentration which I plan to try next time.

I sure do understand that moment of panic when realization hits that you are their only chance for survival. You did good.

Anita
Dan-Ani Pygmy Goats, Idaho

Cyngbaeld · #20 03/22/13, 01:57 PM

If you don't have the does on green feed they should be getting the ACV, undiluted for the minerals, particularly K+.

Sounds like you did everything right. It sure isn't fun getting down on your knees and up as far as you can reach inside a uterus! I'm sure glad I have large does because my hands are man sized. Poor old Inger was a trooper about me shoving my hand in there. She thought she was going to hide in the mesquite thicket and have those kids, but when she couldn't push them right out she wanted me to come help.