Vinnie...bent leg?

mammabooh · #1 03/01/13, 10:10 AM

This sounds a lot like what I'm dealing with. I copied this from the Merck Veterinary website.

"Bent leg is the result of a calcium-phosphorus imbalance. It is seen in young, rapidly growing kids (more often in males than in females) and in young does in the later stages of their first pregnancy or in the early stages of their first lactation. These does are either young (eg, 12 mo), extremely heavy milkers, or carrying twins or triplets. Bent leg is sometimes compounded by rickets ( Rickets).
Clinical Findings and Diagnosis:
Bent leg starts with lateral or medial bowing of one or both radii. Later changes may consist of lateral deviation of the digits on the fore- or hindfeet; lameness and reluctance to walk; an arched back; and soft swelling and pain in the carpal, metacarpophalangeal, tarsal, and metatarsophalangeal joints. Diagnosis can be confirmed with radiography.
Conditions that have been implicated in the cause include an excess of dietary calcium with a calcium-phosphorus ratio of >1.4:1 (generally >1.8:1), excess protein intake (has caused epiphysitis in other species), excess dietary iron (has reduced serum phosphorus levels in lambs by decreasing vitamin D metabolite formation), and housing of kids or lack of vitamin D caused by prolonged overcast weather and low vitamin D levels in the feed. Carotene has an antivitamin D effect. Vitamin D has poor stability in prepared feed, especially when mixed with minerals. Alfalfa is high in calcium (1.4% calcium to 0.2% phosphorus) and protein. Owners frequently keep kids on fresh milk for prolonged periods because often no commercial outlet for the milk is available.

Treatment and Control:
Once the probable cause(s) is identified, the diet should be corrected and the appropriate supplement given—usually injectable vitamin D and phosphorus or oral balanced calcium/phosphorus supplements (or both).
Predisposing factors also must be corrected. The diet of growing kids should be changed to slow their growth rates. The mating of very young does should be discouraged. Buck kids should be separated from doe kids when 3-4 mo old. Young does in milk with limb deformities should be managed so that full lactation is discouraged, eg, by not milking out fully and drying off as early as possible.
Treatment stops limb deformities from worsening and should improve them to a great extent. However, a return to completely normal limbs is rare."

SO, what does that mean to me? How in the world do I fix this, if that is, in fact, what is going on?

CaliannG · #2 03/01/13, 11:49 AM

Okay, if this is, indeed, the problem:

Stop feeding alfalfa.

Treat with daily doses of Vit. A&D supplements, and Vit. C tablets. (Human Vit. C is fine) for one week. Look for improvement. If there is improvement, supplement Vit. D (NOT A after the first week, as A can build up to toxic levels) and C for another two weeks.

Dry this doe off as soon after peak as possible. Keep her dry for at least 8 months (12 is better) before re-breeding.

mammabooh · #3 03/01/13, 12:06 PM

Are you talking about the a&d paste, or something else?

mammabooh · #4 03/01/13, 02:40 PM

Here are pictures again...I just took them a few minutes ago. Now, I'm wondering if it could be just a bad trim job. I trimmed them the same as I always do, but, I must admit that they don't look great in the pictures. I don't know if it's how she's standing on them, of if the trim job is making her stand/walk like that. Any thoughts? Oh, how I would love to be able to fix her up with a hoof trim!!!!

Josie · #5 03/01/13, 02:50 PM

Mammabooh, I'm pretty sure she means Vitamin A&D injectable...like this:http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.h...2-00b0d0204ae5

Josie · #6 03/01/13, 02:52 PM

Hmm...her leg does bow a bit...but you might check her heels to be sure they are the same length as well..might be a contributing factor.

Minelson · #7 03/01/13, 04:04 PM

Gosh I hope it's just the trim but really that is extreme for just an uneven trim.

the 5th picture really looks weird.
I am no help at all! Just thinking out loud that it's something more than the trim.

mammabooh · #8 03/02/13, 01:09 PM

Well, I just got her trimmed up pretty good. She's standing a lot straighter, but she's still walking like she's in a lot of pain. I'm hoping that it's just going to take her body a while to adjust. We'll see.

Minelson · #9 03/02/13, 04:29 PM

Well I'm sure that will help a lot...Sending healing powers to Vinnie~~~~
What do you think is going on?

mammabooh · #10 03/02/13, 04:36 PM

No idea! She eats, drinks, eliminates fine. Normal temp. Negative to trace ketones. Seems mentally perky...maybe a little bit mellower than normal. She just can hardly walk.

Minelson · #11 03/02/13, 04:39 PM

It's gotta be a pinched nerve from the pregnancy then. You don't have due dates right? Any idea at all?

mammabooh · #12 03/02/13, 04:49 PM

Well, today would be day 155 if she settled the first time...but she's not really looking very close. If she settled on the next heat, it would be around the middle of March. If she settled when I thought she did, it would be April 4.

Minelson · #13 03/02/13, 04:55 PM

Jeepers. I guess I would just continue with treatment for that bent leg syndrom you found. Has a vet seen her?

mammabooh · #14 03/02/13, 05:17 PM

When I started this thread, I started one over at DGI at pretty much the same time with the same info. From looking at the pictures, they said it didn't look at all like bent leg.

I gave my vet friend all of the symptoms, and he didn't know what was wrong with her either.

CJBegins · #15 03/02/13, 05:58 PM

Mommabooh, I have watched your struggle with this doe and I wanted to share one of my experiences with you. I have a doe that got pregnant at 3 months. Big oops! I notices the changes when she was about 6 months old. One of the first changes I noticed was that her legs started bowing and she walked with a very painful gait. I wasn't getting her trimmed adequately. Mostly because she tends to grow her hooves faster than the rest of my goats and needs trimming much more frequently and it took me a long time to catch on. This poor doe's legs were very bowed by the time she delivered the one very large buckling. I trimmed her right before delivery and then every two weeks since. I also made Caliann's goat gatorade mixture and gave her as much as she wanted. She got tums also. When I could afford it they got alfalfa pellets. I can't afford them so they get a generous dose of calcium carbonate on their daily grain.

Believe it or not her legs are straight and strong. I will be drying her off soon so that her body can have the break it should have already had.

Make your girl Caliann's mixture, it will work. If she don't like it, add more molasses till she does like it. Her udder looks like it will be a while yet before she delivers.

She will be okay.

Carla

Backfourty,MI. · #16 03/02/13, 06:27 PM

Gosh, Poor Vinnie. I hope it's just a little off on the hoof trim &/or a pinched nerve from baby weight.
I don't know anything about the Bent leg thing other than what I read above that you posted but if I was guessing I would say it's not Bent leg either.

They do make a Vitamin Paste that has Vitamin A, D, E, & B12 in it. It's by Kaeco & it is for cows, sheep & goats, Comes in a tube like Probios or some of the other pastes where you can screw the applicator to the correct dose. It says Goats get 5ml but doesn't say how often. Might want to try that once a week for 2 or 3 weeks & see if that helps. It is not very expensive either.

mammabooh · #17 03/07/13, 04:59 PM

I just wanted to give a little update. A woman on DGI saw the pictures I posted and said that it is the beginnings of bent leg. She has had it in her herd and was able to heal them with Phos-aid. I had my vet order some and it should be here tomorrow. The lady said that she thinks I will probably only have to give Vinnie one dose and that will fix her up. If she's not completely better in two weeks, I should give her another dose. How utterly delightful it will be if that works!

Minelson · #18 03/07/13, 05:10 PM

Wonderful! I know that this has been weighing heavily and it's so good to get a diagnosis and treatment. I hope she only needs one and gets fixed up fast!

mammabooh · #19 03/07/13, 05:19 PM

Me too! It has been my main focus for several weeks now. Hopefully, we'll get her fixed up in time to pop out those kids.

Backfourty,MI. · #20 03/07/13, 06:12 PM

Great, I hope that's it & the new stuff takes care of the problem. Nothing worse than knowing somethings wrong but just don't know what to do to take care of the problem!