Milking advice.

Donna1982 · #1 02/22/13, 11:43 AM

We have two girls that are being down right nasty when it comes time to milk. One is a show girl (Cherry) who I had posted before about leaking. The other is GoGurt our Saanen cross.

Okay here the problem both do the tap dance about half way through milking. Mom CANNOT milk Cherry at all. Doesn't matter which stand she is on or how much food she has in her bucket. Mom touches her and she kicks, tries laying down, moves her foot around until she finds the bucket just down right nasty. I can milk her for the most part until I get her almost empty then she is stomping that foot around and just acting stupid. We have dumped A LOT of milk here lately because of it. I can wash Cherry no problem, I can put her chap guard on her just find but as soon as I go to dip her teat I get kick. She almost broke my hand a few days ago when she kicked me and knocked my hand against the wall.

GoGurt's issue is almost the same. Mom can milk her just fine until GoGo runs out of food then she throws a fit. I have a hard time milking her. She will from the time I start will fuss around. I can only milk her on this one stand we have mom can milk her on their one.

Both are healthy as can be. No hot udders, no clumps in milk, no bruised teats or udders. The only thing that has changed is we added a goat to the milking line. Nothing else has changed.

So what would you do?

Suzyq2u · #2 02/22/13, 11:46 AM

We have the food issue with mama. She is the *fastest* eating goat on the planet. We put a bunch of rocks (like 5!) in her bucket to slow her down. Also if I stand while milking I kind of put my shoulder in front of her back leg, if she starts to move I push into it so she's unsteady and move the milk jar quickly out of the way (takes practice)- she gets the idea. Doesn't always stop her, but it helps significantly -- also patience : / When I'm pressed for time mama goat's behavior really makes a difference that morning.

mjgh06 · #3 02/22/13, 11:51 AM

I use the rock idea too for my fast eaters. As for the kicking thing - I saw somewhere I'll look for the link a leg brace that holds their back feet together but apart so they can't kick at you anymore. I seen and thought hmmm that may be a good thing and then forgot about it. I'll try to find it and post back.

Got it - it's a goat hobble - http://www.caprinesupply.com/product...at-hobble.html

You may find it cheaper somewhere else, but it is made for does who just won't stand still for milking. Looks like it is just a double loop belt, so you may be able to make one.

Alice In TX/MO · #4 02/22/13, 11:52 AM

Rocks or tennis balls in the feeder.

Hobbles on the back legs, bungied to the milk stand.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/hobble.htm

JustinRobinsREO · #5 02/22/13, 12:01 PM

I've tied mines leg off to the rafter above (just one leg). Only had to do it once on each doe and they learned how uncomfortable it was and how much easier it is just to milk.

When they go to lay down I simply lay my hand flat underneath them and give a good slap to the chest once or twice as they lay down. They get up real quick. Only takes about 4-5 times of that happening before they learn and don't do it again.

Some people may disagree with my tactics, but they have worked well for me and both girls milk wonderfully now.

Crazy Farmgirl · #6 02/22/13, 12:25 PM

I use a large soft cotton rope to tie/hobble legs to stand so they can't kick.

I had a couple that would lay down so I put a side bar on my milk stand at mid body height that I would then tie a leather strap or rope that went under the belly that would not allow them to go down, took a few times but they got the idea and quit doing it so I discontinued it and they are good now. Had another person suggest putting a box or something under them in front of the bucket so they couldn't lay down, never tried that one but it might be an option to try.

I feed alfalfa hay on the stand so they never run out of food there then when they are finished and get off the stand they get a treat apples, raisins, sunflower seeds, ect if they were good, if not no treat. They catch on quick and rarely act up on the stand. Maybe you could split their ration so they get a little to start and then give them some time without and give more if they stand without a fit. If they don't then wait until they are standing quietly to give more, hopefully they figure out that the standing quietly gets them grain.

Hope you get things running smooth again...so frustrating when they act up during milking....ruins a perfectly good calm time for you

and the milk

Donna1982 · #7 02/22/13, 01:52 PM

Thanks everyone. I was bragging up my girls a few days ago saying for being FF they are doing so well. No one acts up on the stand we milk out nicely blah blah blah... (eye rolls). I guess I will try hobbling them tonight. It has gotten to the point where I am honestly thinking about drying up GoGurt (HATE milking her) and I have no clue what to do with Cherry. Any idea why she hates my mom doing it? Mom has tried a few times (milking correctly) and Cherry looses it. I would like to get everyone to be able to be milked by anyone just encase anything ever happens and I can't milk.

Well off to take goaties to browse. I will tell them meany girls that they better start behaving for I am going to have goat burgers for dinner lol.

LoneStrChic23 · #8 02/22/13, 02:19 PM

If they are first fresheners, do the hobbles for the kicking and rock to slow down eating.

If necessary, have 2 people go out, one to restrain, one to milk then trade off so the doe realizes she HAS to be milked until the people say it's time to be done and it doesn't matter who is milking. With first fresheners I even change up positions mid milking... say from left side to right, or go milk from behind just to get then used to the different ways they may possibly be milked.....Do this every time until things settle down.

End on a positive note with a short brushing and favorite cookie. Don't get flustered, and if you have to, milk onto the ground while she dances and kicks and just talk to her calmly as she fusses.... Let her know her temper fit doesn't phase you and it's not going to stop you.

Do make sure whoever is milking isn't hair pulling, tugging, gouging with a finger nail, or - milking too high up on the udder. If something is uncomfortable, she has a right to throw a fit.

I cut first fresheners A LOT of slack, so just be consistent and persistent.

Now if the problem doe is one who has freshened for you before and this is an on going problem, it would be a culled goat here.

GoatJunkie · #9 02/22/13, 03:00 PM

My milking Mama is a one person goat. When I first got her, I was not that person. Every milking was a goat wrestling session. I don't have a stanchion, she was tied to the fence with me sitting on a small bucket next to her. She would kick, turn around and shake her head at me (you know, the "go away" chin jut), and acted like she was going to bite me. She would dance around, walk forward and back, try to side step toward me.... it was insane!

I decided to stop trying to save the milk for a period of time and concentrate only on stopping her bad habits. I knew I'd have plenty of milk once we were passed this phase.

Anytime she raised her leg, I grabbed it and held it up high. I would not let go of it until she stopped struggling, and I WAS THE ONE WHO PLACED HER FOOT BACK ON THE GROUND.

I decided to take a more gentle approch to her turning her head around, and offered head scratching instead. If she flipped her head around to avoid my hand, the milking stopped and the issue was addressed, as if it were her not wanting me to touch her. (I don't allow that in my goats. I touch them anywhere I want, anytime I want.) So I held her head until I WAS DONE PETTING HER. Then she got a reward. (Unsalted peanuts are goat crack in our corner of the world.) Then I sat down and finished milking.

When she danced around, or walked forward or backwards, I pinned her against the fence with my body. As soon as she stopped fighting me, I talked to her in a calm voice, and scratched her head and neck where she likes it. THEN I RELEASED HER, and went back to milking.

The only time she has ever tried to bite me was during the goat wrestling period. I grabed her upper lip and twisted it. Not hard, but tight enough that she got the message.

She is a gobbler of food too.... I put the biggest, fattest carrot chunks I can find in the bottom of her grain bucket. She spends a decent amount of time fumbling around trying to eat them.

The good news is that these days I rarely even tie her to milk her.

She simply walks over to the place where I always milk her, I put her grain bucket down, and milk her.

Every so often she still turns her head around to me, but it's a gentle thing these days.... it means she wants me to scratch her head for a moment, which I am always happy to do. I let her decide when she has had enough, by putting her head back to the grain bucket, and I go back to milking. It's a peaceful thing. I rather like taking a moment to pet her, and I love being the one who knows where her favorite places are to be scratched.

Hang in there!

Donna1982 · #10 02/22/13, 05:29 PM

I guess I am just really lucky. Monkey NEVER gave me trouble (that I can remember) and the other two FF are dreams to milk. These two were great until a week ago today... now its a night mare. lol

nehimama · #11 02/22/13, 06:10 PM

A curb strap from a horse bridle makes a GREAT set of goat hobbles to tame down those "Milking Rodeo Queens".

Sherry in Iowa · #12 02/22/13, 06:43 PM

LOL..make sure there isn't a mouse in the feed pan.

Seriously though. It sounds like they started out okay? I'd make sure that I'm not being too rough during the washing, drying and milking process. It only takes one day of too hard a milking to turn a FF.

I'd also make sure that my fingernails are trimmed and not sharp. As well, I'd check my hands to make sure they are not rough.

Lastly...maybe it's just my girls..but they seem kinda sensitive. If a wiggle or misbehavior brings forth the wrath of the milker..it might make a bad impression on the FF. It's okay to correct them..gently.

I'm trying to think like a goat..

best of luck

GoatJunkie · #13 02/22/13, 09:04 PM

I think Sherry brings up a good point. The goat I was dealing with is 165 lb adult who had been milked for two seasons before I got her. My goat was being aggressive. FF are a different situation, and are probably not being aggressive. It IS important that they have a good experience on the milk stand.

Donna1982 · #14 02/22/13, 11:06 PM

Well I was going to tell you about it tomorrow but since stress wont let me sleep here's what happen. Mom wasn't up to dealing with Cherry (she was feeling really icky) so I milked her. Started out fine..ish. she didn't want on the blue stand but finally got up there. I was not milking all of 30 seconds and she started dancing. So out came a dog leash and I hobbled her to the stand. She tried to kick once more and could not move. So she was totally fine. Once I stood up (done milking) she tried dacing but couldn't. Mom tried to dip her test and she lost her mind. GoGo only picked her leg up once. I have no clue what their deal is but something has to give.

April · #15 02/23/13, 07:13 AM

They could be picking up on your stress level and freaking out in sympathy. Try a little 2 minute "meditation on happy" pre-milking. I know it's the hardest thing ever in the midst of all the crap, but just sit and think about blooming daffodils, pouncing kittens, laughing babies, adoring goat faces... anything that makes you smile. Then milk. Even if it doesn't help the girls, it'll be good for you!

*hugs*

GoatJunkie · #16 02/23/13, 10:07 AM

It sounds to me as if the goats have a number of uncertainties about being milked. I would address the issue about the milk stand itself, first.

If the goat is uncomfortable going onto the stanchion, I would milk her on the ground (next to a fence or building,) with one person holding her lead, scratching her head, talking calmly to her. Then put her up on the stanchion for some grain, but no one touches her.

Once she is calmer this way, I would continue this for a few days, then incorporate petting her and touching her (lifting her feet as if to trim them, running my hands all over her, etc.) while on the stand, but not milking.

Then, when this much became acceptable/comfortable to her, I would incorporate milking while she is up there.

It may take a while, but you will have goats that are a joy to milk in the long run.....

coso · #17 02/23/13, 12:49 PM

I make them get on the stand no matter what. If you start milking them on the ground then they don't want to jump up on the stand to get fed. You let them get away with bad behavior they will keep it up. I do cut a little slack to a goat that is just plain jittery or a ditz, especially FF. But if they are doing it just to be ornery,or a PITB. I do not stand for it.

Oat Bucket Farm · #18 02/23/13, 01:05 PM

Our girls do not get extra feed on the stand or anything to slow them down. They learn when they are done with their food, they will remain on the stand until we are finished milking. We found trying to keep them happy with more food only made the problems worse because in affect I was rewarding restlessness on the stand with food. If we have a doe that wants to dance and kick then we set the milk bucket on the floor next to the stand and milk into a small stainless steel bowl and empty the bowl into the bucket. That way she can kick and fuss all she wants and I can hold the bowl with one hand and keep right on milking with the other. After a few days of this, they learn that fussing is not going to make me stop milking and it isn't going to get any more food in the dish.

Backfourty,MI. · #19 02/23/13, 06:36 PM

I feed alfalfa pellets on the stand & that works great for me, Daisey when she's had enough still stands so nice & still so I feel very lucky. Even when all done she won't get off the stand until I give her kisses & scratches & I talk to her some more.

Donna, what about putting a 2 gallon bucket or what ever size you think might work under them out of the way of where your milk bucket is but put the other bucket upside down so when they try to lay down they can't because of the 2nd bigger bucket under them?

Also what about spraying their teats with your teat dip instead of actually dipping them? Just trying to think of things that might make it easier for you. I sure hope it gets better because I'm sure it's very frustrating.