Bald spot/ thinning coat?

[Lorelai]

One of our Saanen does has had a small bald spot on the top of her head (where her horns would've been) for quite some time. I figured it was from butting heads with the other goats in the herd. Lately it has gotten a little more extensive, and we've noticed her coat thinning out, particularly near her rump. Any ideas?

She gets pasture (such as it is this time of year), organic goat grain when on the stanchion once per day, organic alfalfa hay twice per day (the price per pound here makes alfalfa a good choice for us), and free choice baking soda and loose minerals.

She is acting normally, and hasn't indicated to us that she's bothered by it. The other goats seem fine as well. I'd appreciate any thoughts on this - we're fairly new to goats, and are expecting our first kids in May. Thanks!

ETA: All of our goats were wormed with Ivermectin on January 5.

[ani's ark]

I dont know what it could be as I'm a relative goat newbie.
Can you post photos to help people see what you are describing? That would be helpful. It could be that shes not getting enough minerals from free choice or maybe absorbs them less well than your other goats. You could try replamin plus gel on weekly doses if shes looking scruffy.
Could it be ringworm or mites? Hopefully someone can chime in with an expert opinion to help you!

[Minelson]

My guess would be mites. I would treat with Cylence
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.h...e5&gas=cylence

[Lorelai]

Should we treat all four goats for mites, even though Zanadu is the only one really showing signs?

I will try to get a picture up as soon as I can figure out how to do it!

[Lorelai]

Okay... I hope that worked! I'll try to get a more close up picture later if she'll cooperate.

[Minelson]

There is also the possibility that she isn't getting enough minerals. A lot of us here on this forum use Replamin Plus to provide enough minerals and vitamins. Do a search for Replamin and a bunch of threads about it will come up.
I get mine from here.....
http://www.probioticsmart.com/farm/r...-plus-gel.html

As far as treating them all for mites...that is up to you but generally if one is showing symptoms they all have it but this ones immune system might be a little weaker. I treat all 4 of mine. Only one shows symptoms but they all chew on their feet a bit. I think they get it from the bedding. I also use DE in the bedding to help. It always shows up early spring. With my guy who shows symptoms (bald spots) his skin gets really flaky too. After doing research I thought it might be a zinc deficient so I was giving him 50mg of zinc every day...didn't help. I also did a skin scraping to find the mites but could not find any but may not have scraped deep enough.

[Lorelai]

Originally Posted by Minelson

There is also the possibility that she isn't getting enough minerals. A lot of us here on this forum use Replamin Plus to provide enough minerals and vitamins. Do a search for Replamin and a bunch of threads about it will come up.
I get mine from here.....
http://www.probioticsmart.com/farm/r...-plus-gel.html

As far as treating them all for mites...that is up to you but generally if one is showing symptoms they all have it but this ones immune system might be a little weaker. I treat all 4 of mine. Only one shows symptoms but they all chew on their feet a bit. I think they get it from the bedding. I also use DE in the bedding to help. It always shows up early spring. With my guy who shows symptoms (bald spots) his skin gets really flaky too. After doing research I thought it might be a zinc deficient so I was giving him 50mg of zinc every day...didn't help. I also did a skin scraping to find the mites but could not find any but may not have scraped deep enough.

I've read that it could be a zinc related deficiency as well, particularly since we feed straight organic alfalfa hay. I think it was on the dairy goat forum? I found a post somewhere that said something about the calcium in alfalfa blocking the uptake of zinc.

I was thinking of looking into: copper bolus, BoSe (Zanadu is due for this around April 16, as she is due to kid around May 16... would it hurt for her to get it now too?), and a zinc supplement. One lady in our area who runs a large herd of goats (Boer, probably) said that Red Cell, formulated for horses, is one of her favorite products, but Shane couldn't remember if she used it regularly, semi-regularly, or rarely. He spoke with her only once last fall, when we had a goat go down suddenly with pneumonia.

Also, if they don't actually have mites, would it hurt to treat them for it anyway? I haven't noticed any feet chewing, or flaky skin. Zanadu's bald spot does look dry, but it's been bald for awhile in cold weather, so I'm not surprised that the skin would be dry.

ETA: What is the dosage for the Replamin?

[Alice In TX/MO]

Oh, THAT kind of bald spot. She's been head banging with some one.

YouTube

[Lorelai]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Oh, THAT kind of bald spot. She's been head banging with some one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y-vb2w9ytM

That's all I thought it was originally too, but then it started getting bigger, and I noticed her coat was thinning out, especially near her tail. That's when I started to think along the lines of mineral deficiencies, mites/lice, etc., and thought I'd ask for some opinions more expert than mine. And none of the other goats have similar bald spots.

[Minelson]

I'm not sure about the Bose I am not in a selenium deficient area. The Replamin for a full size goat is 5cc's once a week.
The idea behind the Replamin Plus is that you wouldn't have to copper bolus anymore or have minerals out. Mine are still eating minerals along with the replamin.
Banging heads could cause balding but that wouldn't explain the thinning hair. She may be rubbing her butt on something too...I know your frustration!

[Lorelai]

Originally Posted by Minelson

I'm not sure about the Bose I am not in a selenium deficient area. The Replamin for a full size goat is 5cc's once a week.
The idea behind the Replamin Plus is that you wouldn't have to copper bolus anymore or have minerals out. Mine are still eating minerals along with the replamin.
Banging heads could cause balding but that wouldn't explain the thinning hair. She may be rubbing her butt on something too...I know your frustration!

I don't think having the extra boost of minerals would hurt. We are in a selenium/copper deficient area. She is looking a bit scruffy. I guess it could partly be because of the weather change; we had a fairly mild winter, and after a cold spell in January, things are really starting to warm up here (relatively speaking).

Here's my next question: I mentioned Red Cell earlier in the thread; a lady with a large herd of goats suggested it to DH, said it was one of her favorite products. It's formulated for horses originally. Would it be similar enough to Replamin? Does anyone here use it on their goats?

ETA: I also thought it couldn't hurt to start top dressing their grain with BOSS, but I'm unsure of how much to do. I think that will help with coat quality, etc. Plus I'd like the pregnant does to put on a little extra weight during this stage of their pregnancies.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Do not use Red Cell over a long term basis. The iron in it inhibits copper absorption, which is already a problem with this goat.

The Replamin REALLY improved the coat on my goats.

[Minelson]

Red cell is for anemia and I have only heard it being used with goats when they are suffering from a heavy worm load.
BOSS is a great! Too bad it has gotten so expensive. But I still use it for my goats/chickens/horses/minidonks. I would just add a very small handful at first...any feed changes should be done slowly. My goats get 1/2 cup total that all 4 share. They are mini's and pets. Hopefully someone else will chime in with how much to feed.
My goats always look horribly scruffy in the spring when they start shedding out their undercoat. Right now they are super wooly

[Lorelai]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Do not use Red Cell over a long term basis. The iron in it inhibits copper absorption, which is already a problem with this goat.

The Replamin REALLY improved the coat on my goats.

Thanks, that's what I needed to know.

We only used the Red Cell once last November, along with B complex, in a last ditch emergency effort to save our goat who went down with pneumonia (night before she seemed fine, was eating normally, etc., and 12-18 hours later she was gone).

I will look into the Replamin more. It sounds like a great product!

[Alice In TX/MO]

http://www.probioticsmart.com/farm/r...-plus-gel.html

[Lorelai]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

http://www.probioticsmart.com/farm/r...-plus-gel.html

Yep, I'm eyeing that link. I think it's a great idea for our herd; they could all use it. All three does are due to kid in 3-4 months, so hopefully this will give me plenty of time to get them in better condition. I wish I knew about this last fall, so they could have gone into winter in better shape (yes, I'm reading some old threads with before/after pictures about the Replamin Plus - wow!!!). This is our first freshening (not theirs, but ours) and I would love to avoid a traumatic experience. Losing goats is rough.

One question that I can't find the answer to on the website - does this stuff store okay? We only have four goats, three adult, hopefully bred does, and one wether destined for the freezer (he was a May baby from last year). So if I understand the threads I'm reading correctly, one dose of 5 cc per adult goat per week? And dosing each goat twice in the first week? So the first week would run about 40 cc, and then it would take awhile to use up the rest. Is this something best done year round?

Sorry for all these questions; like I said, this is pretty new to me still. Maybe I should start a new thread about Replamin Plus, minerals, and BOSS. Oh, and BoSe.

[Minelson]

I have mini's so only give 3 cc's a week. 12 cc's total a week. It stores just fine on the kitchen counter. I buy the 300cc tube and use a long handled spoon to push it out into separate syringes to dose. My goats suck it right out of the syringe.

[Lorelai]

Originally Posted by Minelson

I have mini's so only give 3 cc's a week. 12 cc's total a week. It stores just fine on the kitchen counter. I buy the 300cc tube and use a long handled spoon to push it out into separate syringes to dose. My goats suck it right out of the syringe.

That's a good idea with the syringes. Ours are full size, large goats, so my numbers were based on 5 cc each per week, except the first week, when they each get 10 cc. So 40 cc the first week, and then 20 cc each week after that. Well, a little less considering the wether, but even numbers are easier for me. Actually, the 300 cc tube would probably last just long enough to really see if there are benefits for our herd.

The problem has been getting DH to understand that we might need to do more than just provide loose minerals. I say they might need more zinc, copper, and/or selenium, and he says the loose minerals have all of those things. I guess what I should have been saying is that only works if each goat is actually consuming the mineral in enough quantity for their needs. So I say these things off and on for months sometimes, then he finally starts saying it too, like it's all his idea, and I haven't been saying it for months.

[Minelson]

Originally Posted by Lorelai

That's a good idea with the syringes. Ours are full size, large goats, so my numbers were based on 5 cc each per week, except the first week, when they each get 10 cc. So 40 cc the first week, and then 20 cc each week after that. Well, a little less considering the wether, but even numbers are easier for me. Actually, the 300 cc tube would probably last just long enough to really see if there are benefits for our herd.

The problem has been getting DH to understand that we might need to do more than just provide loose minerals. I say they might need more zinc, copper, and/or selenium, and he says the loose minerals have all of those things. I guess what I should have been saying is that only works if each goat is actually consuming the mineral in enough quantity for their needs. So I say these things off and on for months sometimes, then he finally starts saying it too, like it's all his idea, and I haven't been saying it for months.

My husband would rather poke himself in the eye than ask me a question about goat nutrition/minerals LOL!! Just get your facts strait and overwhelm him with info.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Just teach the goats to eat the Replamin, either out of the tube or between crackers. Hubby doesn't even need to be involved.