New Babies Sick

mrstillery09 · #1 02/11/13, 09:04 PM

So our new little ladies are not doing great. We got back from shopping to get a few goat related items, and although it's the scheduled time to eat no one is hungry. The Saanen had a bottle at 8 AM and nothing since, and the Alpine had about two ounces at the 2 PM feeding and is refusing to eat more. They both are looking snotty (clear, white mucous), and the Alpine has a bit of a cough. It also looks as though the Saanen has scours, as she has a messy back end. I'm not sure about a fever, because wouldn't you know, our thermometer is caput! (I just used it yesterday). We got Di-Methox today to treat for cocci because our the little Alpine girl was doing a lot of teeth grinding.

So please, give some advice. Should I syringe feed, to make sure they get some food, go ahead and treat for cocci? All guidance would be so appreciated!

CarolT · #2 02/11/13, 09:43 PM

Hope you get more expert advice, but I would treat for cocci and not give food if they aren't wanting to eat right now. Make sure they don't get chilled and I really hope someone else is about to chip in with better advice! Good luck and healing vibes headed to those little girls, I know I would be worried.

mrstillery09 · #3 02/11/13, 09:59 PM

Thank you! They did end up eating a bit, but I am going to treat for cocci, and we'll do some cuddling to stay warm!

CaliannG · #4 02/11/13, 10:13 PM

Keep them warm. That is the biggest issue, that they stay warm. Kids will survive a lot of they are simply kept warm.

The runny nose and coughing is a problem. Pneumonia is common in kids, and it can kill fairly quickly. I would start them on an antibiotic run of Biomycin. 1/2 cc per day for 5 days. Continue the treatment for the full five days even if they look to have recovered.

LoneStrChic23 · #5 02/11/13, 10:45 PM

How old are they?

Did you get the 12.5% Di-Methox or the 40% injectable? Either will do, though the dosage is different. I'd start them on a 5 day round of Di-Methox, make sure you don't under dose, and don't skip days. I don't have my med book handy, but I think the 12.5% is doses at 3.2cc per 5lbs (I round up to 3.5) and the 40% injectable, given orally is 1cc per 5lbs..

Have they been dewormed? If so, with what and at what dose? When?

Are you feeding milk or replacer and are you making sure bottles are warm enough?

If you do have a case of pneumonia on your hands, antibiotics as Caliann suggested (I used Duramycin with good luck, it was what I could get at my TSC at the time) & a dose of Benadryl to help dry up some of that snottiness really worked well for my crew...

Shot of fortified B complex and a lil baking soda ball wouldn't hurt anything either.

GoatJunkie · #6 02/11/13, 10:56 PM

I'm too new to offer advice, but I sure am keeping my fingers crossed for them and sending healing energies and best wishes your way......

mrstillery09 · #7 02/11/13, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

How old are they?

Did you get the 12.5% Di-Methox or the 40% injectable? Either will do, though the dosage is different. I'd start them on a 5 day round of Di-Methox, make sure you don't under dose, and don't skip days. I don't have my med book handy, but I think the 12.5% is doses at 3.2cc per 5lbs (I round up to 3.5) and the 40% injectable, given orally is 1cc per 5lbs..

Have they been dewormed? If so, with what and at what dose? When?

Are you feeding milk or replacer and are you making sure bottles are warm enough?

If you do have a case of pneumonia on your hands, antibiotics as Caliann suggested (I used Duramycin with good luck, it was what I could get at my TSC at the time) & a dose of Benadryl to help dry up some of that snottiness really worked well for my crew...

Shot of fortified B complex and a lil baking soda ball wouldn't hurt anything either.

We got the Di-Methox 40%...I saw dosing info for another thread that said 1 cc for 10 pounds, and we did that orally. Is that ok?

We bought dewormer today but my dad said he wasn't sure if we should treat for cocci and deworm at the same time. I meant to ask if I could do them both on my OP but forgot. I bought Quest Gel from TSC.

We are feeding whole milk, and I am making sure to get their bottles nice and toasty. (They are cute little milk snobs!)

My husband said he thought he saw Biomycin at TSC today, but now he thinks it was the Duramycin. If that is all I can get my hands on would the dosing be the same?

They ended up eating a touch, and I got them all warmed up and cozied into their bed. (They are staying inside in our bathroom) I plan to go check on them in a little bit to make sure they are staying warm.

CaliannG · #8 02/12/13, 12:26 AM

You can use Duramycin instead, as long as it is the injectable kind...not the kind you put in water. However, the reason that I use Biomycin is because it has "anti-ouch" stuff in it. Straight oxytetracycline (which is what Duramycin is) hurts like heck and stings like the dickens.

Injected Duramycin will work just as well, it just hurts more.

Frosted Mini's · #9 02/12/13, 12:39 AM

How old are they? Did you bring them home from somewhere, or are they your own? If bought kids, the stress of the move may have triggered cocci explosion &/or pneumonia. The eating a little bit sometimes reminds me a lot of what my little ones were just going thru with coccidiosis. Hope yours heal up right quick!

mrstillery09 · #10 02/12/13, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

You can use Duramycin instead, as long as it is the injectable kind...not the kind you put in water. However, the reason that I use Biomycin is because it has "anti-ouch" stuff in it. Straight oxytetracycline (which is what Duramycin is) hurts like heck and stings like the dickens.

Injected Duramycin will work just as well, it just hurts more.

Well, then we are going to whatever we can to get the Biomycin. The poor little things have had such a tough week. I'd feel so much better if I knew it wasn't going to sting and hurt too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosted Mini's

How old are they? Did you bring them home from somewhere, or are they your own? If bought kids, the stress of the move may have triggered cocci explosion &/or pneumonia. The eating a little bit sometimes reminds me a lot of what my little ones were just going thru with coccidiosis. Hope yours heal up right quick!

They are a week old. We brought them home this weekend. We've started treatment for cocci, and we'll be worming soon too. They have been such good little troopers! I hope to do whatever I can to get them started off right here!

I seriously don't know what I would do without this forum. I've read so much, and learned so much, but I'm definitely second guessing myself! I'm so scared to not do good enough for them...everyone's advice means so much!

Minelson · #11 02/12/13, 06:51 AM

Oh shoot! Sending prayers that they get better fast!!!

Crazy Farmgirl · #12 02/12/13, 07:09 AM

Have you gotten a temp yet? That would be high on my priority list. I would also do the antibiotic, if you can get duramycin easily I'd do that rather than wasting time searching for biomycin, they get over the sting quickly. I'd be giving probiotic and vit b also. Keep a close eye on their hydration level if they are not eating much they can "crash" quickly if they get dehydrated.

prairiedog · #13 02/12/13, 09:47 AM

They are too young for cocci to be a problem. I would make sure i have cd anti toxin on hand and make sure the bottles stay at the same temp. Not too cold or too hot,either one can cause an upset. A b complex shot might help as well. SubQ fluids if they get dehydrated works wonders.

Frosted Mini's · #14 02/12/13, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairiedog

They are too young for cocci to be a problem.

You would think so, but I am just now learning that it is not out of the realm of possibility. My companion kid for my doeling got coccidia bad from her and he was only 1 week and 2 days old!

mrstillery09 · #15 02/12/13, 02:19 PM

Just thought I'd give everyone an update...

We dosed them both last night for cocci, and this morning the little Alpine had a GREAT feeding. She ate at least 4 ounces, has been wagging her tail occasionally. She is still coughing and sneezing a bit, and still snotty. The little Saanen girl is better than last night but still not feeling great, she is also snotty. We couldn't get bio-mycin so had to use duramycin. I was scared they were going to cry but they didn't!

Would it be ok to go ahead and worm them, or should we wait until they are feeling better?

Hollowdweller · #16 02/12/13, 04:05 PM

I wouldn't be giving kids that young a lot of drugs.

Is their temp normal?

Bottle kids often have digestive ills because people feed them too close together.

I have fed newborns only a few ounces and then come back like 7 hours later and fed them and they were fine.

However I've known people who killed them with kindness feeding them every 4 hours (6 is best) multiple times and they fought the runs in them just because the kids never finished fully digesting the previous feeding before having more dumped in.

Be sure though to keep them very warm between feedings.

CaliannG · #17 02/12/13, 04:27 PM

You can go ahead and deworm them, it won't hurt them. Although worms are not generally an issue for young kids (while coccidia certainly can be!) However, as long as they are showing symptoms of an URI, keep them on the antibiotics.

KarenBaby · #18 02/12/13, 04:42 PM

My opinion is feed stress - clear runny nose is a sign of feed stress. The coughing is most likely due to the clear mucus running down the back of the throat. Especially, with a dirty back end - diarrhea is frequently caused by feed stress.

The first thing I do with feed stress is to cut back on the milk or milk replacer -cut it in half but add water to feed the same volume. The extra fluid will help that lost through diarrhea.

Also, young baby goats can have coccidia - so on top of treating for feed stress, treat for coccidia.

I feed frequently but lower amount - because it simulates nursing more.
But I agree that you really have to watch overfeeding!

I suggest that you take the total amount to be fed per day and divide it by how many feedings you wish to do and then set those feedings apart as close to exact as possible!
For example: twice a day - every 12 hours.
four times a day - every 6 hours.

I started some kids on feedings every 4 hours for the first week and then the second week went to every 6 hours and then the fourth week went to every 8 hours. Yeah, I did some power napping and I was an at home mom at the time so I was lucky enough to be able to do that. That bunch of kids never had diarrhea and grew like weeds!

Frosted Mini's · #19 02/12/13, 07:02 PM

I have learned from a long time breeder of saanens and alpines, that saanen kids are more piggy than alpines, and they can have problems from too rapid growth, so the saanens really pretty much need to be limit-fed their milk, whereas alpines will self-limit their milk feeding, so free-choice doesn't hurt them very much. Stress (from moving, etc.) can bring on all sorts of issues.

mrstillery09 · #20 02/12/13, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarenBaby

My opinion is feed stress - clear runny nose is a sign of feed stress. The coughing is most likely due to the clear mucus running down the back of the throat. Especially, with a dirty back end - diarrhea is frequently caused by feed stress.

The first thing I do with feed stress is to cut back on the milk or milk replacer -cut it in half but add water to feed the same volume. The extra fluid will help that lost through diarrhea.

Also, young baby goats can have coccidia - so on top of treating for feed stress, treat for coccidia.

I feed frequently but lower amount - because it simulates nursing more.
But I agree that you really have to watch overfeeding!

I suggest that you take the total amount to be fed per day and divide it by how many feedings you wish to do and then set those feedings apart as close to exact as possible!
For example: twice a day - every 12 hours.
four times a day - every 6 hours.

I started some kids on feedings every 4 hours for the first week and then the second week went to every 6 hours and then the fourth week went to every 8 hours. Yeah, I did some power napping and I was an at home mom at the time so I was lucky enough to be able to do that. That bunch of kids never had diarrhea and grew like weeds!

I hadn't heard of feed stress before, so this is very interesting! We did go ahead and start on antibiotics because their coughs were sounding pretty rattly. I'm not one of those people that just gives or takes antibiotics haphazardly but we did feel it was the best next step.

Right now I've been doing feedings at 8 AM, 2 PM and 8 PM, amount wise I've been filling their bottles to no more than 8 ounces. Since I started on this schedule no one has finished their bottles, so I'm assuming this is a good amount. Any thoughts though are welcomed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosted Mini's

I have learned from a long time breeder of saanens and alpines, that saanen kids are more piggy than alpines, and they can have problems from too rapid growth, so the saanens really pretty much need to be limit-fed their milk, whereas alpines will self-limit their milk feeding, so free-choice doesn't hurt them very much. Stress (from moving, etc.) can bring on all sorts of issues.

I've definitely seen this to be somewhat true! The Saanen has had a very robust appetite so far, and in the beginning seemed as though she'd drink forever. Compared to the Alpine who is very delicate in her eating it's a stark contrast. I do think once the Saanen is feeling better she will try to be a bottle hog, but I am going to offer only a set amount so they don't drink too much.