Nigerian Dwarf Pros & Cons

Clovers_Clan · #1 02/09/13, 10:11 PM

Hi All, Sorry I dropped off the face of the earth for a while.

I have a question about NDs and hope I don't step on anyone's toes. Some of you are familiar with my two rescued Saanen/Nubian doelings. They're fully recovered, fat and sassy, but behind on the growth curve. They're around 10 months now, and I'll be waiting until they are a minimum of 12 months before I breed. Because they are small, I'm looking to buy a mini buck. I've been researching NDs in my area. Even among the top breeders here, what I'm finding in most pedigrees is extremely poor linear appraisal scores, and some are CH and GCH. When it comes to appraisals, I suspect the cards are a little stacked against NDs because of their size. Teat size is often a problem; compact creatures have compact features. Does the size of the goat adversely affect udder attachment? Or maybe its just my location(NE Georgia), maybe there are better gene pools in other parts of the country. I have noticed most of the breeders around here breed for color and "pet" qualities, so that may be a driving force.

I raise utilitarian goats, not registered, not for show. Some traits I'm not so picky about, but I'd really like to find a buck with good udder attachment genes since my does come from heavy milking lines. Is this something I should even be concerned about? I'll be breeding to keep my goats in milk and I'm okay if the offspring are utilitarian pets. I just want to avoid producing does that could have udder related health issues. They don't need to be perfect, just healthy and useful.

Thank you for all comments and advice.

CaliannG · #2 02/09/13, 10:16 PM

What you are looking for is a Nigerian Buck whose name starts with "JOBI", or, if that is completely unavailable, whose sire or dam's name starts with "JOBI".

There ARE no bad udders or bad producers in the JOBI NIgerian lines.

With ND's, linear appraisals are difficult. Mainly they score badly for cobbiness or coarseness....not looking very dairy. They are still not that far from the split from Pygmies.

Ford Zoo · #3 02/09/13, 10:23 PM

I'll probably go "Oh yeah! Duh!" when you answer, but what does CH and GCH refer to?

TriWinkle · #4 02/09/13, 10:25 PM

Is JOBI a name or acronym for something?

CaliannG · #5 02/09/13, 10:34 PM

CH and GCH stand for "Champion" and "Grand Champion".

JOBI is Jobi Dairy, in Brenham. For 25 years, she has bred NDs that, in her words, "Have teats even a man can milk". Look at the Top 10 Nigerian milk producers in the country; They are either JOBI themselves, or they have that herd name close in their pedigree.

Her herd name IS actually a fusion. Her name is Joanne, and her late husband's name was Bill. JO, for Joanne, and BI for Bill.

LoneStrChic23 · #6 02/09/13, 10:39 PM

Jobi is a herd here in Texas, she has some nice Nigerians.

I don't think the cards are stacked against ND's as far as appraisals go. During LA they are judged against the perfect goat according to their breed standard.

Lots of good Nigerians out there, you just gotta find them.

Where are you located? I bet someone here could give you a breeder referral.

livinzoo · #7 02/09/13, 10:51 PM

Jobi is a good show and milk line breeder in Texas. There are a few other good names out there. Rosasharn is one. PromisedLand is another. There are a few more but I can't remember off the top of my head right now.

I have 2 does that I recently got that are hopefully bred. And depending on what they have I may have a good buckling for you. One of my does had a LA of 85 at 7 years of age.

Clovers_Clan · #8 02/10/13, 12:26 AM

Thanks All. Its good to know what to look for. I think I must be in the wrong area of the country for Nigerians. After Googling those lines, I came up with few results in Georgia and all were show homes and prices to reflect. I know you get what you pay for but I don't have much to spend. I have 2 unregistered mixed breed does so I can't justify a big expenditure on this buck.

Livinzoo- I checked your website, you are just down the road from us. We're in Commerce. I don't know if I could afford a buckling from you but I'm interested. I will PM you. Love your spotted pigs, and your Spanish/Boer buck too!

TriWinkle · #9 02/10/13, 05:54 AM

Is the lady with the JOBI herd still breeding? Do they have a Web site?

LoneStrChic23 · #10 02/10/13, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriWinkle

Is the lady with the JOBI herd still breeding? Do they have a Web site?

Yes she is, and no she doesn't have a website. You can google her and get her phone number to call her.

dbarjacres · #11 02/10/13, 09:12 AM

I have to disagree a bit on the Jobi lines. Yes, they milk, yes they have wonderful teats, but I've also seen some that don't have great attachment (which is what was wanted) and quite often have poor pasterns. She breeds specifically for production, not show or linear. The other down fall is she's way down in southern TX and does not ship goats anymore. Any current pedigrees show very limited Jobi lines anymore, most are back in there 8+ yrs.

How far are you willing to go for a buck? Or willing to ship one in? There are a fair amount of transporters that go thru you area and you could get one moved for $175-200. What kind of price range?

If you were closer I'd love to offer you a reasonable priced buckling out of my doe Lovely if she has one next week.

Cannon_Farms · #12 02/10/13, 09:31 AM

We have some of the greatest breeders in our homestate, Little tots estate , double durango, livingmydream ect would you email me kabukienot@yahoo.com I know of a very nice little buck who has an amazing dam but because his "herd" name isnt as well known as his bloodlines (Cesar's Villia) shes not asking an unreasonable amount, if it wasnt for certain politics I would own the dam in a heartbeat.
All but one of the Saanen does have kidded all the kids are big and healthy, its sad these kids are almost 2 months younger and about the same size as the ones you got when I first got them.
Glad to hear they are doing well.

Alice In TX/MO · #13 02/10/13, 09:40 AM

Where are you located?

I have two bucklings out of a MiniAlpine/MiniMancha breeding. Their dam has the BEST udder and teats in my herd.

They are only a week old, but should be breeders by the fall. I will sell them at 12 weeks.

Clovers_Clan · #14 02/10/13, 11:53 AM

Thank you all, this has been very educational. I'm in a real pickle with what I can afford. Unregistered mini mix does around here sell for about $100-$175 tops. Buckling wethers $50. So that's what I can expect from the babies. These two does are the only does I'll be breeding and hopefully only need the buck one year, hoping the girls will be ready for a standard by their second year. I can't afford a long road trip or shipping. I guess what I'm wondering is if I can breed to a lesser ND and achieve a useful doe. I may have to make do, understanding the offspring are strictly pets, there are people that own them for that alone. I just don't want to breed an animal with poor udder health that will suffer. Maybe I'm worrying too much. I've never had heavy milkers. So I'm unsure about breeding. I have a meat brush goat with the worst udder you've ever seen. Fortunately she's not a heavy producer, if she were, I've no doubt we'd have to put her down. I don't want that to happen with these girl's offspring. Does anyone have a similar experience crossing a standard size heavy milker with nigerian? Would I be better off breeding to a pygmy with a tiny udder but good attachment?

I'm also very open to mini-crosses of all kinds. If someone here is near North Georgia and has a buckling. Registration not necessary.

I'm going to look at a buckling today. Maybe I need to look at some does before I pass judgement. I'm just going on LAs.

Cannon, I would be interested in your lead if this buckling doesn't work out.

thaiblue12 · #15 02/10/13, 12:07 PM

We have a member on here that lives in Georgia. He doesn't post anymore but I will email him and see if he has anything for sale or knows of anyone around you who does.

Cannon_Farms · #16 02/10/13, 12:47 PM

Little tots will sell nice bucklings as wethers that would make great herd sires but if he has too many he simply just tries to get them in homes.
Now, I just thought of this but a friend who was hurt pretty badly has two nice looking nigerian bucks he needs to find a home for, no papers but they are very well put together.

LA scores can be a good tool, but that is just what it is, a tool and things can happen to a doe that may lesson the score. My best does I purchased one whom foundered, one udder twisted slightly from being a heavy producer and only having one kid on her great producers and pedigrees just wouldnt make a high score but are full of years of useful service.
Im just checking but you do know how to read the scores right? Lucas farms has a great breakdown if you cant access the one on ADGA website.

Clovers_Clan · #17 02/10/13, 06:31 PM

I found a buckling today. His dam has nice teat size and great medial lig. Not as high in the rear udder as I'd like but not bad. As a 6-7 year old she looks great. His sire has great lines. And he's flashy to boot. Looks like I'm in business. Now to figure out whether to register or not.

Best of all purchased from a really nice couple with a good healthy small herd.

G&L Mini Acres Blessing AGS D-34575
SGM FR Painted Boy AGS D-45187

Minelson · #18 02/10/13, 06:55 PM

He sure looks like a winner! And super cute

congrats

!!

TriWinkle · #19 02/11/13, 07:36 AM

Because it was mentioned in this thread I'll continue it rather than spam the forum with another of my goofy thread...So I know I'm ignorant about this stuff, I'm learning as fast as I can, maybe that leaves me too sensitive...Case in point:

I got to my friend/mentor about the JOBI line, because she's into pedigrees and all that, so I'm kinda stoked to hear there's apparently a good one in our state...Now in hindsight, I guess I should have known...

Me: Hey, you heard of this herd (see what I did there...ahh never mind) JOBI? It's supposed to be good stuff and in our local!

Her: Yeah, of course I have.

Me: <waiting for additional info in silence>

Her: <Continued silence>

Crickets: Chirping

Me: Well good on ya...Check back with ya.

Ok, why did I walk away from that conversation like I just asked a question similar to wondering if the sky was blue or grass was green?

Perhaps, this is all of y'all's fault...You've spoiled me...I'm thinking if I ask a similar question on here.

"Hey you guys ever heard of the herd (did it again) JOBI?"

Y'all would be like, "Oh sure, they from TX, don't have a site, great this and awesome that..."

And then someone else would come on and say, "But I never really care for this on them, so if you're looking for that, then I'd go here."

And me, I'd be soaking this up like a sponge and the crickets would be quiet as well.

Shame on the lot of ya!!

Anyway, am I missing something, just tired of feeling like the class dunce or if someone had come to one of y'all with a similar question, would there have been a bit more "substance"? I guess my thought was, it wasn't exactly a closed end question I posed.

wendle · #20 02/11/13, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbarjacres

I have to disagree a bit on the Jobi lines. Yes, they milk, yes they have wonderful teats, but I've also seen some that don't have great attachment (which is what was wanted) and quite often have poor pasterns. She breeds specifically for production, not show or linear. The other down fall is she's way down in southern TX and does not ship goats anymore. Any current pedigrees show very limited Jobi lines anymore, most are back in there 8+ yrs.

How far are you willing to go for a buck? Or willing to ship one in? There are a fair amount of transporters that go thru you area and you could get one moved for $175-200. What kind of price range?

If you were closer I'd love to offer you a reasonable priced buckling out of my doe Lovely if she has one next week.

Not trying to hijack the thread or anything. Just checked out your goat page and like what you have. I noticed they are all spoken for though? If they aren't pm me, and maybe let me know what you might have available. I will be looking for a nice buck to breed to my daughter's 4H show goats.