Hot Topics in the Goat Forum

[CaliannG]

Recently, a GMO thread was deleted here in the Goat forum, which led to some discussion about what should and should not be, allowed. The difficulty with some hot-button topics are:

1. People tend to be even more passionate about them then they are about goats, although that seems impossible.

2. People who almost never come to this forum invade in numbers to participate in these threads, which causes...

3. The poor moderators to have to sit on the threads to babysit them, taking away from the time they could spend building the facilities for the goats we are talking them into getting, because....

4. The invaders tend to always turn the threads insulting and political by the second page.

Now, some folks do want these topics discussed, mainly because this is their HOME forum, and they don't visit the other forums. Therefore, they don't see the many threads on these topics. Also, some people wish to be able to discuss these things strictly from the point of view of a consumer and livestock owner...not a producer or grocery-store buyer.

So what say you, members? What do you WANT?

(Poll for this thread will be added shortly---be patient)

[mammabooh]

I think we should be able to discuss it all, no matter how heated it gets. I'm for freedom and liberty and all that jazz.

[Ford Zoo]

My thought is that this is "our" forum, and for the most part, contributing members consider other members' valued opinions, even if there is disagreement. I appreciate that we are open to many, less frequent visitors and like to have them join in, asking questions and sharing their experiences. But if there is an honest thread moving along and a Shyster comes along to be nasty, perhaps we can have their judgemental posts removed and just carry on with our conversations. It would be sad to have the few ruin the good comradery and great info that is shared here by so many.
Maybe we could help be the watch dogs and notify the mods of indecent responses so they don't have to babysit?

I will admit I jumped the gun last night when I did not know all the details (I don't have time to read everything, so I greatly respect the mods for all the time they put into this). And I am sending out a public apology and gratefulness to AngieM2 for taking the time to let me know that something is amiss and they are working on it.

[CaliannG]

I will be posting the poll results. It ends in 5 days. I'll bump it as necessary to make sure most of the members get to see it and vote for want they want.

Think of it as direct democracy!

[Ford Zoo]

Kudos to you Caliann for stepping up and trying to help figure this out!

[CageFreeFamily]

I think it's extremely important for this to be an open space for discussion of issues that affect us as goat farmers. I also abhor the idea of people invading the space for the purpose of defending themselves as if our discussion were a personal attack. If a person does not want to use GMO feed for any reason then that is THEIR choice. I don't care if it's because they don't like the color. Each one of us has a right to make the choices that are in line with our own personal values, and to discuss and request thoughts on those choices.

The problem comes in when a person is so ego identified that they have the need to be RIGHT, and school other people on their 'rightness'. It's a huge issue. There are many, many people on the internet who cannot tolerate differing opinions or discussion which undermines their own beliefs, no matter how factual, cool or calm.

It seems that the answer is to simple create a hard rule for the Goat forums that there is a ZERO tolerance policy for flaming and personal attack of any kind. Ergo, if you cannot stick to facts, questions, data, and personal opinion without personally attacking another member, then you and your post are gone. No questions asked. Be civil or be gone. It seems like it would only be a matter of time before certain types of people would label us stupid and just ignore our 'offensive' threads.

I wonder too, as someone else pointed out, if it could be proactively managed by not including buzz words in the post titles. We could extend it further and make sure that such hot topic posts contained a reminder of the forum's rules of etiquette.

Many parenting topic boards deal with this issue on an every post basis. Parenting choices are all hot topics that flare emotions like nothing else. These boards manage to stay alive by having very strict rules of etiquette. Perhaps we could try to do the same?

[stanb999]

I think the issue is a few people that can't be nice ruin it. Can we discuss all manner of things? Yes.

Is it fair to the moderators to have to sift the threads that are heated.? No.

If controversial threads like the horn thread, is shut down because a few couldn't discuss it and in fact made the threat to have it shut down with insults that lead to it's removal. Then we should just have soft topics.

[Sherry in Iowa]

I'm probably wrong here..but it seems to me that the goat forum "family" can have disagreements, hash it out and be fine. It's the people who come in that don't participate here unless there is a "special" topic being discussed that seems to get things unhinged.

I can learn from everyone and anyone. But I like my free speech. I don't need to get personal..though I do break that if someone zeroes in on me. I guess it comes down to the goat forum "family" can disagree and work it out. We may not change each others minds, but we give each other a lot to think about. Outsiders just want to "yell" the loudest and be the boldest in their speech. They don't care if they change anyone's minds, they care more about getting a thread locked or intimidating the normal goat forum people. I'm slow, I didn't get this figured out until the last go around.

For me, if one of these people post their usual, I think it's just better not to retort..but move on with the discussion at hand. At least I am going to try hard to do that. If I forget..please, someone pm me and tell me I'm getting sucked in!

If GMOs are not something you want to discuss..it's like TV..just move on to the next thread that is of interest to ya. There's always that choice.

[dozedotz]

I don't think a discussion forum is the place for too much control. If I don't like what is being discussed, how it is being discussed or if I'm just not interested: I don't read it.
Like turning off the tv or not going to the dirty movie or not reading the book about how to stack clothes. Just ignore it. Now, dirty language, pictures, insulting stuff can just be thrown out under the normal rules. I really wanted to say something about Emily's post the other day and the courts, but I assumed that many of the regulars on this blog who have been here a long time and make excellent contributions would find it too political. Now I wish I had done it just to see if it would have been dropped. At least I would have given Emily some serious support other than a pat on the back and "move along there is nothing to see here because it didn't effect me (YET!)." Some people who think that they are avoiding being politically obnoxious are in fact politically correct and very left of center...not neutral.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Sherry in Iowa

I'm probably wrong here..but it seems to me that the goat forum "family" can have disagreements, hash it out and be fine. It's the people who come in that don't participate here unless there is a "special" topic being discussed that seems to get things unhinged. .

This. Yes.

There do seem to be some folk who are not regular participants on the forum, who come in specifically to shout down people on their "pet" topics.

It would be helpful if such disagreeable posts could be removed.

[Awnry Abe]

Delete. Caliann, do me a favor?

[CaliannG]

Originally Posted by CrownRanch

I'm glad "Dan" wasn't a choice. I put it in quotes, because the truth is that all of us guys have the same decision making processes.

I must be slow tonight...I don't get it???

[KrisD]

I don't get it either??

[GoatJunkie]

I have great respect for opposing opinions because, when intelligently written, they make me think. I hope we can continue to discuss everything. I learned a lot from The Great Horn Debate.

For years I moderated a group with zero tolerance for drama, where it was expressed in the group description that every post had to leave open respect for the *opposing opinion.* If we are all careful to word our thoughts this way, when someone posts a rude or defensive comment it simply hangs in the air, awkward, and glaringly immature. A complete lack of response takes away the "fun" of trying to pick a fight.

Let's not allow anyone else to dictate who and what we are to each other. The heart of this group is awesome. It out shines any insulting visitor.

[Sonshine]

I don't post in the goat forum that often because I'm a newbie compared to most on here. I read it a lot though and have learned a lot from it. IMO I think it would be a shame to ban certain topics from being discussed. Even in the heated debates I have learned and it has encouraged me to do more research on the topics. I don't think you'll find a forum that there isn't going to be some disagreements, that's why we have moderators, to keep people on topic instead of attacking the other posters. If they start telling us what we can or cannot discuss, like GMO, what's next? Horns or no horns? As you all know, that is another topic that can get pretty heated, but it's important for newbies such as myself to know these things.

[JohnP]

Genetically Modified Oberhasli. Now that's just wrong.

[CaliannG]

Are those the goats that milk spidersilk?

[francismilker]

I'm not a newbie to HT but don't frequent the goat forum often. Sure, I have a lot to learn about goats but I spend more time on the cattle and other subforums so don't have time for it.

I will say, however, that I'm not tech or forum savvy enough to know what GMO means! If this is referring to threads like the "great dehorning" debate or other passionate issues I say let them alone. The "regulars" that call this subforum home don't own it or pay taxes on it. If someone like myself drops in to browse thread titles and weighs in with their opinion I should be pm'd by the mods and asked to simmer down.

If the GMO threads are banned, what kind of freedom do we have here?

Still don't know what GMO means? Seriously, could someone help me out here.

BTW, don't know what thread it was that got banned either.

[Awnry Abe]

Originally Posted by CaliannG

I must be slow tonight...I don't get it???

Yes. Slow night. Sorry about that all, (and Alice/Dan). This morning, that doesn't quite sound like what I meant to say...

[Alice In TX/MO]

I'm *still* trying to figure it out.

BUT, that's because we had triplets late from Cassie, the MiniMancha tricolor. Heading out to try to get pics of dancing baby goats.

If we can talk about Genetically Modified Organisms, aka Frankencorn, Frankensoy, etc., AND be nice, that would be fine.