Argh! Cookie has diarrhea

Blue Run Farm · #1 02/03/13, 05:27 PM

Cookie is due March 30. She is the one that the vet said had strongyles two weeks ago, but was showing no signs. Eyelids are perfect color, stool WAS perfectly normal. Until I went out for this evening's feed

She now has awful diarrhea out of nowhere. Like green baby food. She is acting totally normal and her eyelids still look great. Of course, when I tried to take her temp the thermometer wouldn't turn on, grr. I gave her probios, vit ADE&B12 gel (had it on hand and don't have any straight b12 injectable), and wormed her with Ivermectin. I did give everyone a dose of Selenium-E gel yesterday, according to the directions for goats, because I noticed Snickers was looking spongy in the pasterns and I hadn't given BoSe since last year. The other two are fine, but Cookie has diarrhea, so I don't know if that was the cause but it is the only thing that I have done differently lately, so I wonder if it upset her tummy.

I have her separated into a quarantine stall for now with plenty of hay and water. I'll give her more Probios in the morning. Is there anything else I should be doing for her? I feel so bad. I wish I had some Pepto, but I am out of that too. She is more annoyed at being alone than anything else. But I am worried, especially given that there are unborn kids involved. I feel like her vulva looks swollen, but that could just be because she has diarrhea and I am staring at her back there. Ligaments feel solid, so that is good. It seems like things just keep going wrong this year and I am terrified of losing her or the babies

beccachow · #2 02/03/13, 06:21 PM

I have had the best luck with a combo of pepto and fruit punch gatorade. I kid you not; liquid pepto and gatorade. Saved my hide a few times.

iloveafarmer · #3 02/03/13, 09:00 PM

Pumpkin is good too.

Backfourty,MI. · #4 02/03/13, 09:48 PM

Why do you have her separated? Just wondering & thinking maybe put her back with her herd mates so not to stress her anymore right now.

If you go out to get more Pepto bismol check your farm store 1st for the Kaolin Pectalin, it's pink, gallon bottle & much cheaper than buying pepto bismol. I think it may even work better than the pepto.

Minelson · #5 02/04/13, 06:50 AM

Sorry Cookie doesn't feel well

Blue Run Farm · #6 02/04/13, 12:34 PM

Thanks guys! Backfourty, I had her separated for observation. I find it is much easier to keep track of what her poo looks like overnight if she is in a stall where I can look around at the floor/walls rather than out in the field for her stools. Also, Beverly has been a bit of a butt lately and I didn't want her pushing Cookie around when she wasn't feeling good.

This morning her stools were a bit more solid. Not nice dry berries, but definitely drier and more formed than last night. I gave her another dose of probiotics and turned her back out with the other two. She is acting normal and eating well. I will try to get some Pepto and gatorade tonight after work (I tried getting the kaolin pectate the last time I had one with diarrhea, but no one around here seems to carry it and I don't really want a whole gallon anyway). Time to buy a new thermometer too. But I think she is okay, must have just gotten into something and overindulged or her tummy didn't like the SelE gel. I swear these goats are giving me grey hairs!

trnubian · #7 02/04/13, 02:17 PM

I am glad she is feeling better. If her poo is or was green I woukd be leaning more towards her having gotten into something. Some extra righ alfalfa? Extra alfalfa pellets? Anything new or especially good that she could browse or eat alot of could do that. I know thats what it has been the few time mine have had green scours... Overindulgement of really nice alfalfa or browse...

I always just give them some electrolye water (plus regular water), probios and kaolin pectin for a day or two and then they seem fine.

Blue Run Farm · #8 02/04/13, 02:23 PM

Thanks Trnubian! It was definitely green. I haven't been feeding alfalfa, since last year my first freshener freshened with udder congestion and I was told it was from the alfalfa. So this year I have stuck with grass hay and a very small amount of grain and plan to add alfalfa back in a week or two post freshening. But I did notice her in the back corner of the pen, now that I think about it. I remember not being able to see her and calling for her. She came over when I called and I didn't think much of it at the time. I wonder if we had a big tree limb down or someone threw something over the fence from my neighbor's place that I couldn't see. I'm not sure why else she would have been in that corner unless she was chowing down on something, it's not one of their usual hangouts.

trnubian · #9 02/04/13, 02:58 PM

Sounds like that was what it was then.

Just a caution on the straight grass hay and grain....
You may be setting yourself up for more trouble that way. You see with that feeding program you are feed a 1 to 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. Or possibly a higher ammount of phosphorus than that. In order for her to utilize the calcium to grow baby bones, to have good strong contractions and to make milk for yoyu and those babies she needs to have a 2 to 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. Possibly a 3 to 5 to 1 ratio would not hurt either.

Congestion of the udder is most likely due to too much protein (which CAN be cause by alflalfa.) BUT, alfalfa has a very high calcium content, grain and grass hay are high in phosphorus. If you feed alfalfa hay and a pound or so of lower protein feed such as straight oats you will be providing her with the correct balance of calcium to phosphorus. This will also ward off hypocalcimia which is deadly and if not caught and treated quickly is hard to reverse and sends them into ketosis.

Adding alfalfa soon after freshening can also send them into hypocalcimia since the extra protein will increase her milk out put on a body who has no extra calcium to put in that milk. It is better to start them on alfalfa slowly before you freshen. (From experience.)
Just my two cents and what has worked for us.

Blue Run Farm · #10 02/04/13, 03:21 PM

Sigh. Seems no matter what I do I am never going to get it right. Last year I fed alfalfa for the calcium and had one freshen congested (out of two). Was told to hold off and not feed alfalfa during pregnancy, but just my hay and a bit of dairy pellets. So that is what I am doing. Now I am worried I am causing a different problem. Why can't it be easy? :P

I have alfalfa forage in the bag (like chaffhaye) that I could add in gradually. I also am giving replamin weekly. I only give a handful of the dairy pellets during pregnancy, because I am worried about the protein already. They have free choice grass hay all the time, no matter what else I am feeding. Feels like I need an advanced degree to feed these girls, lol. Is straight oats really better than the dairy pellets? It would be cheaper, but I thought the pellets were better? I swear, I pay more attention to these goats' diets than I do to my own, and it still seems like I am always doing something wrong!

trnubian · #11 02/04/13, 04:11 PM

I am not saying you are exactly wrong. It sounds like you are doing the best you know how to do.

I am just trying to help. I have had to figure all this out the hard way (like most people) over 13 years and there is still much I will learn I am sure.

Theoreticaly yes, straight oats and pure alfalfa hay will be just fine along with your replamin plus and free choice salt. That being said, I would add a high protein source (like calf manna or a high protein dairy pellet) to growing kids' oats and to first freshening yearlings' oats. I would do this because these animals are growing still and need the extra protein.

I personaly feed a 16% grain mix to all my girls. I start about 6 weeks before they are due and work them up to about 2 pounds of this mix the day they freshen. After they freshen, I go by body condition to judge if one needs more or less and adjust accordingly, slowly.

My mix that I hand mix is:
10 pounds oats
10 pounds crack corn
6 pounds of Kent ProVider 38 dairy pellet (38% protein)
1/2 pound corn oil
1/2 pound liquid molasses

This mix has worked soooo well for us. We show so we want that extra bloom that it gives. However, if you are just wanting milk and healthy animals straight oats to your milkers with alfalfa is very simple and effective.

My kids get a 20% protein lamb pellet, alfalfa, milk and grow like weeds.