What Happened?

emanuelcs34 · #1 01/31/13, 01:37 PM

Since I need to replace my burner, I had a friend come over to burn the 2 babies horns. He has done this for over 20 years.
He started on the little pygmy, did one horn and she collapsed. I grabbed her and massaged and blew in her face and she finally started breathing again. We decided to wait after that.
They are now in a kennel in the kitchen again so I can keep an eye on her. I think she is ok but I want to make sure.

Does anyone know why this happened? or what can we do to prevent it when we do her other horn? I am scared to do it now.

ani's ark · #2 01/31/13, 01:41 PM

I'm sorry to hear about that, it must have been really scary. I hope she is ok! Can you just leave them? Some folks don't mind goats with horns...

francismilker · #3 01/31/13, 01:42 PM

More than likely too much heat was applied and the stress/trauma caused her to go into shock. I had to burn a scur off of a baby last year that resurfaced and caused the same thing. Also, pygmies are much smaller than other goats and it was like using a sword where you should've been using a knife. I don't know if there's a smaller sized burner available but there are many different wattages available.

emanuelcs34 · #4 01/31/13, 01:51 PM

I have been doing nigerians for 5 years and my friend has been doing them for at least 20. Hers were no smaller than the Nigerians. I don't think that it was on for to long, but I guess that is possible. I am scared to do it again.
I do have to get a new burner soon. He had 3 burners and we used the smallest one.

Minelson · #5 01/31/13, 01:53 PM

Oh no! I would be terrified to do the other one too! What did the guy think happened (since he has been doing it for so long) Was it a first for him for this to happen? That baby girl has got to survive in her mothers name! I think I would find a vet to do the other horn and maybe use a bit of sedation or something...or just let her grow one horn.
(((hugs))

emanuelcs34 · #6 01/31/13, 02:13 PM

He has never had this happen,. He thought he had killed her and was so upset. I don't Think he did it too long. Maybe just take longer and only do a few seconds at a time?

JBarGFarmKeeper · #7 01/31/13, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emanuelcs34

He has never had this happen,. He thought he had killed her and was so upset. I don't Think he did it too long. Maybe just take longer and only do a few seconds at a time?

How many seconds did he count? I always count out loud.

emanuelcs34 · #8 01/31/13, 02:28 PM

you know I didn't ask him. I also wasn't counting.
I do know he waits longer to burn than I do, they have horns started by the time he does it at his place. So maybe he was a little longer because of this? I am afraid to try again. but I have to do it. I will give it a few days to get my nerve up.

LoneStrChic23 · #9 01/31/13, 03:05 PM

How was the kid restrained? I've seen folks hold improperly and accidently cut off their air supply and the kids passed out..... Seen it happen with a too short kid in a disbudding box too...

emanuelcs34 · #10 01/31/13, 03:11 PM

He kneeled and had the kid laying between his legs. I never thought of that. but maybe he was holding her still and accidentaly cut off air. She was fighting alot (doesn't like to hold still ever) So that is a good possibility. I usually try to just hold the head but didn't notice how he was holding her.

Squeaky McMurdo · #11 01/31/13, 03:15 PM

It sounds like shock and it may have just been a fluke that she has a lower tolerance level than the others. Cayenne is a time tested way to treat it and even if it isn't shock it won't hurt her and could still help. Put a pinch in a glass of water and draw some of it into an oral syringe. If she collapses again squirt some in her mouth and it should help bring her back around.

emanuelcs34 · #12 01/31/13, 03:24 PM

Thank you, That is a good thing to know. I will have it ready next time.
I am still shaking from this morning so it will be a few days before I try again.

Donna1982 · #13 01/31/13, 06:04 PM

Sounds like to me she was accidentally chocked out. It'd very very very easy to do with a goat. We had one happen this year and the vet in Kentucky did it to a LaMancha doe mom had. As soon as you release pressure they come back. When she woke up was she really shakey?

emanuelcs34 · #14 01/31/13, 06:10 PM

It took a little bit for her to come around and get her feet under her. It might be that she got choked out, honestly I wasn't paying attention. Not something I ever want to repeat.
I thought she was dead for a few minutes.

Minelson · #15 01/31/13, 06:23 PM

That sounds so scary! I guess I would just be prepared for shock and make sure not to choke when you do the next one. ((((hugs))) Is she doing all right now??

emanuelcs34 · #16 01/31/13, 07:26 PM

Yes, she is back to her normal, ornery self. She was kinda shaky and quiet for a few hours. But that could of just been cause of the horn being burnt.
I will probably try tomorrow to finish her and the other goat. I will take it slow and stop if I think she needs it. and be prepared just in case it was shock.

Minelson · #17 01/31/13, 07:55 PM

Maybe a small shot of Banamine b4 hand would help

creekmom · #18 01/31/13, 08:59 PM

I can just feel for you as I read what happened. I'm so glad she bounced back for you. Let us know what you end up doing and how you guys are.

mjgh06 · #19 02/01/13, 08:34 AM

Sorry to kinda steal the post but I have a question - I have pygmies and will be the first year disbudding - how old is good for a pygmy? They should be born anytime now, mom is overdue by my calc.

**mygoat** · #20 02/01/13, 08:50 AM

I would bet either it was choked out or it was stressed and passed out.

I do all kids before 7 days old.

I've never had goats shaky for a while after - a good burn shouldn't hurt for long after disbudding. A PARTIAL burn can hurt for a LONG time. I have had burned kids shaky or fall down during the burn, never passed out though.

I have done a kid for someone, and the iron wasn't hot enough. That made me put the iron on for longer and I actually caused heat meningitis. Never use extension cords, and always be sure the iron is HOT when using it. Hotter means a faster burn, better for the critters. It is NOT common unless done improperly.

I've done my pygmy mutt miniatures (supposedly purebred pygmy, assuming there's some nigerian in there). I have a 'pygmy' tip for my X50, never used it because it's far too small. I've always used the 1/2" tip same as for my full size kids.

For bucks/wethers I always do a figure 8 burn - center the iron over the main bud on each side, then go back to the first side and burn the teardrop part of it too. This has eliminated scurs.

The vets at MSU highly reccomend deading the nerves with novacaine before disbudding. I would do it, as the difference is amazing when it does work (doesn't work all the time) - but my vet won't sell any to me. *sigh*.