Protein percentage feed?

[ani's ark]

I've always fed Salma a mollassed grain calf meal with added minerals and Bovatec on the milkstand, it is 16% protein. She usually has a BF if I try to change to any other feed so I never really tried.
She grudgingly accepted the cheaper plain version when I had a fit of thriftiness, but her milk volume dropped noticeably, so I today I bought the 16% bovatec feed again, hoping that will bring her up again.

Only I noticed today the feed store has a 20% protein version of the same feed. Would that be even better or is 16% ideal?

[CaliannG]

I use 18% lactation pellet, no molasses. I'll have to dig into my studies again and re-read to find out why I decided that was best. ~sighs~ I hate getting old.

[mygoat]

Generally the problems people see now, IMO, is too much protein. A good 16% OR LESS protein (less works well if you're feeding alfalfa hay which is quite high in protein!) is sufficient.

More protein is not better. More protein is expensive and can cause edema issues. Some other things it might cause but like Caliann, I don't recall everything. I blame it on being a student. Well that, and right now I'm at the sheep barn at MSU, and a Suffolk ewe just has ewe/ram twins and I shoudl probably think about heading back out soon-ish to make sure they're dry and nursing. Anywho...

At some point, critters can't use 'more' protein. They start either burning it for energy or breaking it down a bit and peeing it out. Protein is the most expensive thing in a diet as a portion of dry matter. Why have them pee it out? And if they burn it... well, carbs are MUCH cheaper and easier to digest than protein, and usually carbs are sufficient for the energy requirements of animals too.

Also, ammonia oxidizes to nitrous oxode when digested by ground microbes -which is about 270somethin odd times WORSE for the environment (greenhouse gas) than CO2. Just an odd fact I learned in class the other day. Woo hooo, applying what I"m learning!

[LoneStrChic23]

I'm in the lower protein feeding group. I had does freshening with awful udder edema and I had several does with foot issues when I was feeding a 16% protein feed...

I switched to a 12% protein feed and the udder edema and foot problems vanished.

Protein is one of the pricer ingredients in your feed ration and any excess is just excreted in urine, so I don't want to waste my $$ on bumping protein when it's not needed.

Now, my girls get plenty of alfalfa as well, so that is a good protein source...

I also prefer a higher fat ration, so I add fat to it with either rice bran pellets (when I can afford them) or a bit of oil drizzled on top.

Girls look great, milk fabulously and I'm happy

I honestly can't tell you WHY I had problems feeding high protein grain.. Lots of folks do without issue, but for whatever reason, it's just not a good fit for my girls.

[Hannah90]

Figuring out feed is tricky business. We are planning on replanting our hay field soon. 1/2 in pure alfalfa for dairy girls and the other 1/2 our normal grass/alfalfa mix for the horse and boy animals.

I have my girls on a little sweet feed right now and minerals. I am planting a MASS quantity of black oil sun flowers this year in hopes of providing them for the goats without paying $20 a bag. While we're on this, can someone smarter than I am tell my why corn isn't appropriate for goats? I don't feed it, but dad asked me why we couldn't feed the cow food to the goats, and I said because goats shouldn't eat corn, but I had no real explination.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Ditto on seeing high protein causing problems.

My vet in Missouri is a semi-retired bovine lactation expert/consultant. He's been working with his clients to get corn out of COW diets, too. It "heats" them up, burns them out, and shortens their lives. It causes hoof problems. It is not a natural product for grazers or browsers and causes rumen challenges.

If it is VERY cold, I add a small amount of corn to their ration. NEVER in the warmer months.

[cmharris6002]

There is a way to adjust protein levels throughout lactation but you would never want to do 20% for any length of time. It you are on milk test you adjust protein according to MUN levels. I'm not on milk test so I don't fluctuate protein levels.One way to use the 20% is to mix it with oats to bring down the protein. I use a 14% non molasses based feed and supplement with organic, non-GMO roasted soybeans for extra fat and protein.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Do you see any problems from the estrogen like properties of soy?

[cmharris6002]

I have never had any health problems feeding non-GMO organic soy. According to my research the estrogenic isoflavones problem with soy only occurs with processed gmo soy. Soy can be incredibly healthful, but ONLY if it is organic and properly fermented or roasted. It has been around for centuries. Japanese people live longer and have lower rates of cancer than Americans, their diet relies heavily on soy but it is non gmo and fermented or roasted, not processed like American soy.

I did extensive research before turning to soy to meet the protein needs of my goats. It is nearly impossible to get to a 14%-16% without using soy. If you use a commercial mix it is hidden in there somewhere. I'm just glad I found a cert. organic source, I also have cert. organic alfalfa hay!!

[Alice In TX/MO]

Good to know! Thank you.

[ani's ark]

Wow, and my ration is mollassed, mostly corn and high protein. So basically all wrong!

I think the next bag maybe I'll go back to the mixed grain and add some plain oats to it with a drizzle of oil. I know they are not supposed to thrive on large amounts of grain as its not a natural diet, but we bred them to produce un-natural quantities of milk; so unless we feed them up, my undertanding is they cant get the calories they need from grass and browse and get too thin? I've really had to stuff Salma with grain to keep weight on her when she's in lactation, but she dam raises two kids, plus feeds us and two pigs!

[CaliannG]

For every question about feed, you will find 18 different answers.

For non-lactating animals, a varied browse is best.

For pregnant animals or growing animals, higher protein is best (they use a lot of protein in building bones, so pregnant animals are building baby bones, and growing animals are building their own bones.)

For lactating animals, higher fat is best. Most of the solids in milk are fat-based. (Goat milk has approximately 13% solids. 4-7% of that is made up of lipids, while the rest are in sugars and proteins.)

The difficulties in pin-pointing the PERFECT diet is that the studies out about diet are not all inclusive. Goats fed X feed produced milk of Y value of sugar, protein, and butter fat. But, the studies don't tell you EVERYTHING. What mineral supplements did these goats have? If the goats had browse, exactly WHAT were they eating? Pasture? What condition were the goats in at peak? What condition were the goats in at the end of their cycle? What were the parasite loads? Etc., etc., etc.

Diet is a mixture of SO many things!

On the milkstand, I try to go with high fat and protein. I have a lot of browse and understocked pasture (which won't be the case if we get more drought, then everyone goes to hay), which means that, with hay, their carb needs are well met with their daily munching. But since the stuff growing in my pasture is NOT high protein and fat, that is what I supplement on the stand.

So, it really depends upon your situation. Your Universities or Ag Offices ought to have the nutritional value of most of the plants on your property...so you should be able to look them up. Then just do the math from there. "My pasture is mainly thisgrass, with about 20% thatshrub and whateverweed...but they eat more of the whateverweed than thisgrass.....so if I approximate their diet, it is likely about 60% whateverweed, 20% thatshrub, and 20% thisgrass and everything else. So, based on that, the Ag service lists the nutritional value of those things here, doing the math, they are currently getting about 9% protein, 5% fat, and 73% carbs, with the rest in fibers. If I want their diet to be 14% protein, 12% fat, and the rest in carbs and fiber, then what should I be feeding them on the stand, if they get 2 lbs a day out of the approximate 5lbs per day that they consume, to adjust the ratio to that level in concentrates?"

Yeah, feed is in math. That is why everyone has different feeding programs. Some folks are feeding hay on drylots, which makes the math a bit easier. Others have to account for pasture and browse. Since different geographical places have different flora, with different nutritional qualities, everyone has to feed a bit differently.

In SOME places, where the flora is low protein, people might be feeding 20% protein feeds and doing well. In other places, people will need to feed lower protein feeds, and higher fats. Etc.

And there will always be other folks saying, "Oh my Lord! You are going to KILL your goats feeding that much protein/fat/carb/soy/corn/whatever! So-and-so at this seminar/University/scientific study said that high [insert stuff here] is bad, bad, BAD!"

No, it is not. Diet depends ENTIRELY on *your* area and *your* facilities. Knowing YOUR own area and what your goats are getting from their environment is the key to tweaking YOUR management to their needs.