Need Advice After Traumatic Birth

LearningLife · #1 01/30/13, 09:36 PM

Well, that was no fun at all, and now I need some advice. Here's the story:

Went out around 9pm to check on Emily. We knew the birth was going to be soon. She was panting, pushing, and there was goo. So we stayed with her. She pushed and pushed for longer than normal. Finally we saw something, but it wasn't nose and toes. DH went in to check, and he couldn't figure it out. I checked and had a hard time, too. We finally determined that the kid was coming butt first. DH was able to work the back legs out finally, and he pulled a large-ish buckling. The sack had already broken, the kid had a herniated belly (maybe from the pulling), and there was no saving him. Next came a much smaller buckling, presented correctly and delivered easily. Another sack appeared, and it just looked "off" - brownish in color and very small. Emily delivered a stillborn, very small kid. I suspect it died some time ago in utero. There was no real odor other than the normal that we've noticed with all kiddings. We stayed with Emily for a while to wait for more, if there were any. After about 45 minutes, there was no more pushing, and Emily was busily cleaning her new boy. I made sure he nursed and Emily is producing nice, thick colostrum for him. As of the time we came in, she still hadn't expelled the afterbirth. I bumped her and didn't feel anything, so I think she's done.

Here are the questions: Do I need to give antibiotics to Emily? We did have to go in, and I'm concerned about the stillborn being in her for who knows how long. We did give her CMPK. She also has fresh hay, a little bit of grain to munch, and some warm water with molasses. Do I need to go in to check again? I was a little nervous about doing this since the afterbirth was still "hanging" and I didn't want to tear it from inside and cause damage.

This is our first bad kidding experience, and I know that it will happen from time to tome. I have no idea what happened or why, but right now I'm more concerned about making sure that Emily is ok.

Thanks.

CaliannG · #2 01/30/13, 10:04 PM

Yes, give antibiotics. A full run.

Dead kid means she could be going septic in there. You DON'T want that to happen.

LearningLife · #3 01/30/13, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

Yes, give antibiotics. A full run.

Dead kid means she could be going septic in there. You DON'T want that to happen.

Thanks. I have Pen-G on hand. Should I go ahead with that, or is there something else/better I should try to get from the vet in the morning?

KSALguy · #4 01/30/13, 10:21 PM

Pen G is alot better than nothing, give her a good dose of that now, any time you go in you want to give antibiotics, more so with the dead kid, do you have any B 12 on hand too?

LearningLife · #5 01/30/13, 10:27 PM

We have b-complex for people. Can I crush that and give it to her?

KSALguy · #6 01/30/13, 10:36 PM

not sure, it probably wouldnt hurt, i will let one of the more versed medical people make that call, but dose her real good tonight and tomorrow morning with Pen G for sure, is she up and acting normal? i always gave a bucket of warm water with Molases and Karo syrup mixed in for a boost after a hard delivery too,

LearningLife · #7 01/30/13, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSALguy

not sure, it probably wouldnt hurt, i will let one of the more versed medical people make that call, but dose her real good tonight and tomorrow morning with Pen G for sure, is she up and acting normal? i always gave a bucket of warm water with Molases and Karo syrup mixed in for a boost after a hard delivery too,

She is up and acting normal. She finished all of her warm molasses water and some grain. She's up and walking and tending to her boy. We gave her a dose of Pen G and some crushed up B complex. Gave the little buckling BoSe because he's just not as vigorous as I'd like to see. We will go out to check them both every bit for the rest of the night and give her another dose of Pen G in the morning. Emily is a very special girl here, and I want to take the best care I can of her. It's still rainy and nasty outside, but she and the baby have a nice, dry, warm stall to themselves right now. Temps are still in the 50's tonight, so hopefully they'll be comfy.

copperpennykids · #8 01/30/13, 11:14 PM

If Emily were my goat, I would be giving her a uterine flush:

8ccs LA200 (biomyicin) mixed with 25 ccs of sterile water.

Carefully slide an AI pipette (horse) into the does still open cervix (and your window of opportunity is closing, literally). Then inject the solution into the AI pipette. Done.

If she shows signs of fever etc. then you will need to start her on a course of antibiotics. I would use Excenel/Naxcel (vet Rx) as it can cross the uterus.

LA 200 can be purchased at a feed store.

LearningLife · #9 01/31/13, 05:41 AM

Just an update: Emily is still up and acting normally. She's eating, peeing and pooping. She did pass the afterbirth. She got another dose of Pen G this morning. She has plenty of hay and fresh water. Her little boy, Willy, is hanging in there. He still seems a bit weak, but he's very vocal!

Copperpennykids, I wish I had known to do your suggestion before last night. We didn't have LA 200, and of course the kidding would happen at night when feed stores were closed. We've never had a problem birth here, so I wasn't as prepared as I thought I was.

Last night was horrendous, but I'm trying to look at it as a learning experience.

farmrbrown · #10 01/31/13, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LearningLife

Just an update: Emily is still up and acting normally. She's eating, peeing and pooping. She did pass the afterbirth. She got another dose of Pen G this morning. She has plenty of hay and fresh water. Her little boy, Willy, is hanging in there. He still seems a bit weak, but he's very vocal!

Copperpennykids, I wish I had known to do your suggestion before last night. We didn't have LA 200, and of course the kidding would happen at night when feed stores were closed. We've never had a problem birth here, so I wasn't as prepared as I thought I was.

Last night was horrendous, but I'm trying to look at it as a learning experience.

It sounds like you and the doe did just fine.

You live, you learn.

Minelson · #11 01/31/13, 07:17 AM

Sorry for your bad experience

(((hugs)))

Backfourty,MI. · #12 01/31/13, 07:37 AM

Sorry for the dead kids & bad kidding experience but it sounds like Emily is doing pretty good. Keep a close eye on her for any signs of infection but I would keep up on the antibiotics for a full 5 days.
You can give the little buckling the liquid from a couple Vitamin E capsules to help him from being so wobbly too.

Make sure & give Emily Probios paste for a couple days after your done with the Pen G as antibiotics really screw with Rumen function.

Goat Servant · #13 01/31/13, 08:08 AM

Yes, definetely keep up your Pen for at least 5 days, even 7. Be checking her temp. A dose of banamine would be very helpful if it gets high.

LearningLife · #14 01/31/13, 08:24 AM

Thank you all for your help and encouragement. I'm a worried mess at work today, and I can't wait to get home this afternoon to check on her.

Hollowdweller · #15 01/31/13, 09:39 AM

I've had that before. Curse of the mummy (kid).

A lot of times when you got a mummy it gums up the works and you have trouble getting the kids out. I've nearly always have had a mummy with 2 live kids.

Good on you for both kidding and finding the mummy. If it stays in the doe could die or be infertile.

If I have to pull kids I always go back in and feel around to see if there's a mummy.

Yeah I'd load her up with Penicillin for about a week.