Fish teat and offspring registration

[Mama2ws]

One more question for tonight I bought a doeling last year from a herd I love, who turned out to have somewhat of a fish teat. I'll post a picture tomorrow, but her teat looks like there is a second teat attached to it about an inch up. No orfice in the "attached" teat. I've read several different opinions on what to do with offspring. Some even suggested putting the doe down. I have a registered herd and would like to someday have a show herd. All of my does are loved and euthanizing her isn't an option. Because fish teat are hereditary, again I've read mixed opinions on this too. Would you register kids out of her. I don't want a line of offspring with my herd name with the defect. Her breeder said her sire and dam have never had another kid with fish teats. So maybe it's a fluke??

She will stay here and be loved or will go to a good homesteading home who wants a milker one day. I'm just on the fence about what to do with her kids. Registering them or not, and keeping them or not

[ani's ark]

Caveat: I am not a breeder, so my opinion is not worth much! I am a wanna-be, new to dairy goats, just starting down the breeding/registered path now in NZ.

I'm left wondering what is the breeder's response beyond "it's never happened before"?
You dont want a fish-teated gene in your herd, but they dont mind? I would expect more of a response if I paid full price for a registered doe with a fault like that, or I would reconsider buying from them again. I personally would not register her kids or you are putting that gene into your herd, could risk your reputation as a breeder.

If the breeder wont refund some of the purchase price, you could sell her to someone who wants a home milker, as you say, I think thats the best option.

[Cyngbaeld]

If it is fish teat, she shouldn't be bred. Are you sure it isn't a milk cyst?

[Mama2ws]

I wish I knew enough to decipher between a milk cyst and a fish teat. I'll post a picture in the morning, maybe you guys can tell me.

As far as her breeder, I didn't make a big deal about it. I've purchased from her before and I'm not really someone who enjoys confrontation. She said the vet could just snip it off and I could show her. I don't think it could just be snipped off like a true fish teat. I'm afraid it would cause problems if it was removed and I milked her. To be fair I didn't send a picture if it to her, I just explained it. I need to follow up and get her a picture and see what she says.

[Mama2ws]

I did more research, I think it's technically called a teat spur. I'm really dreading this, I hate the fact that I'll have to probably let her go and sell her kids for a very discounted price

[mygoat]

Fish teats are when 2 regular teats appear to be fused most/all of their length, with 2 orifices generally. Here is a good descriptoion of the ABGA (BOERS) teat structures, good pictures/descrptions.

http://www.abga.org/images/graphics/udder-structure.jpg

I'm assuming this doe is a dairy? Have you contacted the breeder and asked for a replacement? I'd do that first. They may have a sibling that is similar in age, or a milking doe who may replace her.

Personally, if she were mine and the breeder wouldn't replace her, I'd breed her and replace her with a normal teated daughter. Or keep a totally different doeling altogether that's unrelated, if you don't feel safe doing that. For sake of appearances I'd probably not keep her too long in my herd. I'd avoid inbreeding when you choose the buck you breed her to. It sounds like it might be a fluke thing, and it CAN happen with any animals as a fluke thing. Can happen to anybody. I check ALL kids at birth for teat structure, including bucklings. Somethings can be hard to see when they're really young like if they have a tiny extra one, but you can usually at least tell numbers.

[Mama2ws]

I'd say it looks more like #11. Thanks for the link.

I'll see what the breeder says, my gut feeling says to sell her. I hate it though, she's a sweetheart!! Yes, she's a Nubian, so the teat is a big no-no.

[harvestmoonfarm]

My LM doe has the same on both teats (also #11). It in no way affects her milking ability. She's not registered and I never have any plans to show, so it doesn't bother me. I guess it's up to each breeder as to what they find acceptable, but she's a sweetheart and, just because she's a little "different," doesn't make me love her any less.

[LearningLife]

Originally Posted by harvestmoonfarm

My LM doe has the same on both teats (also #11). It in no way affects her milking ability. She's not registered and I never have any plans to show, so it doesn't bother me. I guess it's up to each breeder as to what they find acceptable, but she's a sweetheart and, just because she's a little "different," doesn't make me love her any less.

We have the same issue here. One of our ND's has one teat that looks like #11, but the "spur" has a definite orifice from which milk squirts. We don't look on it as a fault, really, since she is our best little milker. She has given us 3 doelings in the past 2 years. One of them has normal teats, one has one teat spur, and both teats on the other has spurs. We kept the first two, and the other one was sold to a family who needed a companion for their wether. We sold her for a very discounted price, just enough to cover the cost of gas to deliver her.

I don't mind the spurs on our girls because we are raising them as family milkers, not registering, and not showing. If we were more interested in showing, I suppose our outlook would be different. We did wether her two bucklings last year so that their new owners wouldn't have to worry about the genes being passed on. Any doelings out of her line that we do sell will be sold with full disclosure of the possibility of the issue and only to people who understand that it can show up in later generations.

[Mama2ws]

I think that's our best possible situation at this point. We'll probably wether any bucklings and send them to freezer camp. Any doelings will go unregistered at a discounted price with full disclosure. I'll find her a wonderful home as a family milker in a few months. No registration, and discounted.

Thanks ladies!! Selling her won't be easy. It doesn't make me love her any less, she's such a sweet girl. She's going to make a great addition to someone's homestead so that makes me feel better.

[mygoat]

Personally, Showing doesn't make a lick of difference IMO. It is a trait to be selected away from with ALL dairies. I don't think it's a death sentance or anything, but I definetely agree that all bucklings should be wethered out of such does, and only daughters that are normal should be kept or sold, even if you don't show. I'd also disclose the fact that the teat irregularity is present.

Mama2Ws, did you contact her breeder and make it clear that you're not pleased with the deformity?

[saanengirl]

While it is heritable, it is not very heritable. Like mygoat said, I would castrate any male offspring, but normal does would be fine to keep and register if you really like the genetics otherwise. You can't show the doe herself, but she most likely will produce normal daughters. If I really liked the doe, I would keep a normal daughter and sell her without papers as a family milker with full disclosure as long as she wasn't too difficult to milk due to the deformity.

[southerngurl]

You do NOT snip stuff like this off and show! Now I'm wondering who this breeder is. That is unethical.

If you paid for a registered animal for breeding purposes, this is a major defect and you should receive either a replacement animal or a refund.

Since you're just starting out, I'd personally not want to start out like this. I would not give papers on an animal with a teat defect. Always check teats when you buy. Stuff like this is usually visible at birth.

She is a functional animal and can produce food. But just not something that should be used to better the breed among the registry IMO.

[Mama2ws]

I'm going to get better pictures today and send them to her breeder. I did contact her breeder after I had her a couple of months and it became more apparent. She said it was fine, it could be removed, and she hadn't had any issues with the breeding before. I'm embarrassed that I didn't check her at the time of purchase. I'll see what she says.
I agree that showing is not the most important reason for removing this trait. I want to have a solid clean milking line first, showing is secondary to that.

[Mama2ws]

Southerngurl, I know you are a member of dairygoatinfo, I've seen your info there. I don't really post, but I read everything, lol. The breeder is a reputable breeder of Nubians in Texas so I'm sure you know of her. I've purchased from her before and never had an issue. I'm just hoping she might have misunderstood me.

[chamoisee]

What southerngurl said. That woman is not an ethical breeder and she certainly is not your friend. I had similar experiences...if you haven't done it already, test your herd for CAE, because this is not a person who can be trusted. I am so sorry you had this experience...at least it wasn't CL. :-(

[Mama2ws]

Teat spur or not? I hope I'm not being over dramatic. All the blood went out this morning for testing. I'll have CAE results next week.

[mygoat]

Is there an orifice? Honestly, it does look like a teat spur.

[Mama2ws]

What do you think it is? No orfice. Would you still sell her? That's why I'm glad I asked.

[Mama2ws]

It looks a lot less prominent as her teats elongate. It was closer to the tip before I bred her.