What should not be in my goats grain?

Boisse · #1 01/19/13, 09:35 AM

This is my first thread so I hope I am posting it in the right place

I have a saanen/lammancha cross doe that is an excellent producer.
But for some reason her milk tastes off for some reason.
This is not just my oppinion but others of the family that we bring milk to on a regular basis.I asked them what they thought tasted off about it and they said it tastes chemicaly.We feed her bomgars goat feed corn oats barley mallases ect.
I guess I said all that to say is there something in grain that milking does arent suppose to have.Or could it be something else.Oh ya and we feed her high quality 3rd cutting alfalfa/grass hay.

sammyd · #2 01/19/13, 10:36 AM

we've never had a problem with weird tastes from any sort of grain mix and we've used several different types.

Alice In TX/MO · #3 01/19/13, 10:51 AM

Not familiar with that brand of feed. You're sure it isn't a medicated feed?

I don't feed corn or molasses.

Do you have her on a good (high copper) loose mineral?

Has her milk changed in flavor recently? Does it taste different right after milking or does it change on storage?

What are you milking into? Glass, stainless steel, or plastic?

Do you filter the milk?

Do you chill it quickly?

Backfourty,MI. · #4 01/19/13, 11:50 AM

I agree with Alice. I feed mine a 16% percent dairy pellet mixed with crimped oats. No added corn, molasses, etc. They get alfalfa pellets on the stand & have grass/alfalfa mixed hay 24/7. Browse when the time of year is right too.

Good loose minerals & baking soda out 24/7 somewhere out of the elements.

Strain & chill the milk as quick as possible. I put mine in the freezer in a glass jar after straining, let it stay in the freezer a couple hours to get it extra cold before transferring to the fridge.

Frosted Mini's · #5 01/19/13, 12:43 PM

Backfourty, I'd be willing to bet that the "dairy pellet" has both corn and molasses in it. The molasses is probably in dry form.

Too much molasses can cause them to have chronic acidosis, which could lead to funky milk flavors. She may also have mastitis, which is why Alice was asking about if the flavor changed, and how well it stores.

Boisse · #6 01/19/13, 10:25 PM

thank you all for your replies.
We got her and her doeling in august the previos owners were just milking
her once a day.they were just feeding her feed store brand grain with hay diet.
We stepped her up to twice a day in just a short time.
Because we were newbies we didnt know she had mastitus.
It was bad according to some friends of ours.We treated it according to what suggestions were online and it eventually cleared up.
We now know what mastitus is we found out the hard way lol
She gives us about a gallon a day.
We hand milk her into a stainless steel bucket
then we strain it and put it into the fridge right away.
It is not a medicated feed
I just looked it has no copper
18% protein

Awnry Abe · #7 01/19/13, 10:50 PM

We mix our own rations for our dairy goats when fresh. Ours is pretty simple, just oats, BOSS, and alfalfa pellets. They like it, it seems to keep them healthy, and the milk tastes good.

I would avoid corn and corn byproducts in the grain mix.

CaliannG · #8 01/19/13, 11:03 PM

Okay, there is a sticky that is at the top of our forum about how to test for mastitis. Her milk may be off because the mastitis isn't completely gone, it has just gone sub-clinical. It is important to test for it as their are different KINDS of mastitis, caused by different things, and you treat them with completely different things.

Was her mastitis caused by staphylococcis bacteria, or a strain of e. coli? If you don't know the answer to that, then you need to test her milk, as she likely still has the mastitis in sub-clinical form.

Now, how to prevent mastitis:

Grain is not a complete feed for goats, or even anywhere close. Goats in the wild have a very wide variety of food available to them, with different vitamin and mineral make up. Just like we can choose to have a wide variety of dishes every day, ranging from brocolli to daikon radish to deep fried mushrooms...each of these food address our vitamin and mineral needs.

Goats have some grain that we give them, grass hay...and often grass pastures, and some alfalfa. Goats are actually not grazers, they are browsers, and a mostly grass diet with some grain added to it does not do it for them.

Since it is difficult to bring them a wide variety of salads to meet their needs ("Would Madame Doe prefer the Oak Leaf, Western Ragweed, and Illinois Bundleflower salad today? Or perhaps the Sugarberry Twigs, Maple Leaf, and Purple Prairie Flower will pique her appetite? We have a special today, specifically invented by our nationally recognized Goat Chef, called the "Tree Delight" consisting of Cedar and Pine needles, the tender bark of a special selection of fruit trees, Wisteria flowers and leaves, and garnished with Marigold and Rose blossoms.") , we resort to supplements. These are sorta like Multi-Vitamin/Mineral doses, just for goats.

The "minerals" that work for goats are loose minerals, NOT blocks. Never get blocks for goats. However, I could spend all day going through all of the brands of loose minerals, which ones work, which ones do not, and why...just to find that YOUR local feed store doesn't carry anything considered decent.

So, I am going to make it easy for you: Get some Replamin Plus Gel in a tube and give your doe 5cc of it for three days in a row (to bring up her vitamin and mineral levels) and then give her 5 cc of it once a week after that.

Then, come back here and get a goaty education.

There are LOTS of things you need to know which, I am afraid, you may have gotten into goats without knowing. Such as:

1. CAE and CL are both contagious, incurable diseases found in goats that can cause mastitis. Has your goat been tested for these disease? If not, you need to get her tested...these are major diseases that can pass to innocent kid goats, and that shorten the lifespan of goats, and have *terrible*, miserable endings. I cannot stress enough how important it is to make sure your goat is clear of these diseases.

2. What kind of udder wash do you use on her before you milk her? Do you dry her udder after washing, and before milking her? After you finish milking her, what kind of teat dip do you use? Washing the teats and udder in a good, antibacterial wash is very important, as it keeps such buggies out of your milk. Drying the udder after washing is also very important, as it keeps droplets of your wash from getting into the milk and making the flavor off. The teat dip is important because after milking, those orifices are TIRED...they have opened and closed a lot, and it takes them about a half an hour to want to close all the way again. That is a half an hour that, if she goes to take a nap or stroll through hay, all sorts of little buggies can get in there and infect her udder.

I hope this information helps some.

Alice In TX/MO · #9 01/20/13, 08:43 AM

What kind of minerals do you provide?

Boisse · #10 01/20/13, 09:16 AM

I dont give her any minerals what do you suggest?

Alice In TX/MO · #11 01/20/13, 09:59 AM

AAHHHH that could be part of the problem!

At the very least, Purina Goat Mineral.

There are better high copper minerals, but availability is always an issue.

I use Cargill Right Now - Onyx <---Onyx is important. They have Emerald, etc., but you need Onyx.

Here's a few other options:
http://www.custommilling.com/GoatMinerals.html

http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/xcart/Gol...-Minerals.html

http://www.jollygerman.com/livestock/goatmineral.shtml

Here's a webpage with some discussion of minerals:
http://www.sweetdeseret.com/wblog/?p=93

Oat Bucket Farm · #12 01/20/13, 05:49 PM

If she is low on copper, it will take more than just loose minerals to get her to where she needs to be. You will either have to copper bolus or use Replamin.

Boisse · #13 01/21/13, 04:43 PM

Wow I always learn the hard way lol
The feed I was giving her had no copper it was mainly designed for SHEEP.
It was suggested to me by a guy at our feed store it says sheep/goat feed I think thats about all he went off of.
I am taking her to the vet tomorrow to have blood drawn for cl/cae testing as well as a cali milk mastitus test.
I believe she was tested for cl/cae before i bought her but i lost the gals number who i bought the goat from so i cant call to verify.
I am looking into all of your suggestions thank so much for everybodies help.
CrownRanch i sent you a message about mixing your own feed.
I mix my own feed for my pigs and chickens so I am researching it.

Alice In TX/MO · #14 01/21/13, 05:10 PM

The California Mastitis Test is useless for one time testing with goats. Sorry.

It tests for somatic cells, and goats normally have a higher somatic cell count than cows.

Some folks use it every week and watch for changes. That's its only use with goats.

chewie · #15 01/21/13, 05:10 PM

I had a doe this summer whose milk went off. was fine day of milking, then within a few days it was rank. within a few days of the remplin gel plus dose, her milk was back being sweet and creamy. we had a very hot and dry summer. I always provide the onyx mineral but they weren't taking in much. not sure why she got so 'off', but very thankful for this board for the advice about that gel, not sure I'd ever of found it on my own.

I really hate when companies list stuff as "sheep and goats" they may be similar in size, but that's about it. their feed needs are not the same!!

this place will teach you more than most of the vets around know. sometimes there is a vet that's good with goats, but sadly, very few from what I can see. so its up to you to do copious amts of your own research/education.

at first, I did better off just blindly following those who knew more than me, and then tried to learn the 'whys'. had some major setbacks and a few times got some major advice too. hehe, and I thought goats were gonna be easy! haaha on me!

Boisse · #16 01/21/13, 05:39 PM

How much replamin gel plus do you give?
Do you mix it with feed or just straight out of the tube?
I feel like im asking 21 questions lol

CaliannG · #17 01/22/13, 04:48 PM

Boise, don't worry. We welcome questions!

Dose is 5cc for standard sized goats, 3 cc for Mini-breeds, and 2 cc for Nigerians or Pygmies.

Dose is given once per week. If the goat is VERY deficient, you can give them their dose three days in a row, then wait 4 days and give them another dose, and then go weekly from there.

For mine, it either goes straight from the tube (several of my does will MOB you for it and suck it out of the tube), or on top of their feed. Most goats consider it a treat. A few will think you are trying to poison them at first and you therefore have to do it just like you would any tubed paste, and force it on them.

Once they figure out what it is, though, they are generally easier after that. I have one that is a little drama queen over EVERYTHING. She even puts up a fight over probios. She has, however, now taken to licking the tube for her Replamin.

I have discovered, by accident, that it is difficult to overdose the stuff. I had to go to my Mom's for a weekend to help her out, so DH was doing the animal care. The next weekend, I go to give the goats their Sunday dose, and I noticed my dosing gun had the pin on the 15 cc setting. I asked DH, "Did you give the goats 15 cc of Replamin?"

"No," he says. "I put the pin right in the 5 cc mark."

"Did you dose the horses afterwards or something?"

"No," he replies. "Just the goats, once on Saturday, once on Sunday. Once a day, just like they are supposed to have."

"Honey, when I left, the pin was already IN the 5 cc slot. Now it is in the 15 cc slot and you said you moved it. Were you wearing your new contacts when you made the adjustment? Also, they get dosed once per WEEK, not once per DAY."

"Uhhh...the contacts were making my eyes itch."

~sighs~ So each of the goats, INCLUDING my Minis, got 30 cc of Replamin plus over one weekend, and the only ill effect they seems to have was that most of them did NOT want their Replamin the next weekend. (One exception, but she'd suck the entire tube down if I let her.)

I figure that if you COULD go to toxic levels with this stuff, feeding 30 cc to a Mini goat in 2 days would do it. All I got was a bit more production. Oh, and Cypress managed to heal up her newest cut (That goat is ALWAYS getting herself banged up!) in nearly record time.

Boisse · #18 01/26/13, 10:55 PM

Well so far we should here back next week on the cl cae testing through university of Wyoming next week.I got her off of the stupid feed mainly designed for sheep.
I started mixing my own oats,BOSS and alfalfa pellets like Crown Ranch suggested .
Her milk tastes great and she loves it I dont know for sure if that's what all the problem was with the funky taste but it seems to have fixed it.
thank you all for your help

Cannon_Farms · #19 01/27/13, 08:18 AM

We have found soy to be a cause for a funky taste, you wouldn't believe how hard it is to find a pellet without it.
I don't know much about the northern alfalfa but in the south when it is grown farmers put a conditioner on it and I traced down a funk taste to that as well.

If you have not already had the vet pull blood its considerably cheaper to do it yourself and you could send off milk samples as well for less. There are many you tube videos on how to pull blood from a goat, if nothing else watch your vet if you have him do it so you can learn, it really is as easy as it looks.

AlannaTiernan · #20 01/27/13, 06:01 PM

Okay, newbie here... so my question is, I thought you weren't suppose to give goats and sheep grain because it would cause founders. Yet I see everyone feeding grain. What am I doing wrong? I fed my little goats (Alpine/Nubian x) when they were younger and my doe ends up with twisted hooves. Now I don't feed any grain and have to trim hooves every month to try and correct them. Any suggestions?