Does anyone follow Natural goat care advocated by Pat Coleby?

[lexa]

I got her books on goats and sheep for Christmas and just finished reading them. Is anyone on this forum goes this rout?
Where do you get your minerals from? Kelp?

[jmansheim7]

Hi Lexa,
I have followed Pat Coleby's methods for going on seven years now with extremely remarkable success.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Many feed stores can order kelp for you.

Good source of minerals:
http://www.jollygerman.com/livestock/index.shtml

Keep in mind that ANY goat program has to be fine tuned for YOUR area and feed.

[redgate]

I have almost all of her books, as we have a diverse farm. She is right on with her mineral and vitamin discussions. THey are definitely my "go-to" books for symptoms health issues. Let us know where you are located, and we can possibly offer suggestions for mineral options. As Alice said, though, I have found you may have to tailor the lick a bit for your area. I have moved our farm cross-country and needs seem different. In one area, we had no need of the sulfur, while in the new area, we need more sulfur than her lick calls for. I have also added more copper at times, based on need.

[brettz]

I am reading this book as well and would like to tweak our feeding to follow her's a little more closely. I read some other threads on this forum on nutrition that were helpful as well.

From what I understand with Pat Coleby's recipe, you'd mix equal parts alfalfa chaff, oat chaff and rolled wheat or wheat bran. Then you soak 1/2 part whole barley, adding trace minerals and apple cider vinegar to the water it soaks in. You would mix in 2t dolomite and 1t sulfur before feeding. Top dressing with sunflower seeds is good but keep it at no more than 1 tablespoon per goat. You'd feed about 1 quart of this twice a day for a full-sized goat. I assume about 1 quart total for a mini? Feed free choice seaweed meal and rock salt. And feed free choice grass hay.

She does not go into detail about how you mix (or buy pre-mixed) trace minerals. I currently feed loose minerals free-choice (Sweetlix Meat Maker). If you have free-choice minerals I assume you do not need to add it to the water when soaking the barley?

I also am going to start top-dressing the feed with Diamond XP-DFM.

Currently I feed grass hay in the morning and alfalfa at night. Right now all of my goats are housed together, which is proving a little difficult as they have different dietary needs. I have one lactating doe. One 3-month pregnant doe, one 10-month doeling who is fat, one 1-month doeling, 3 1-month of bucklings. I pull mom away to give her a dairy goat feed top dressed with fiasco farms 'mo milk herbal mix. I also give her a small amount of sunflower seeds and I give the other two adults a small handful of seeds to get them off my back when I pull the other out. It seems like it would be better for all if I could have free-choice grass hay and then give the above recipe to each goat as needed. I could feed the kids separately and the two does on the milk stand. Fatty can have a nibble to feel included.

Regarding urinary calculi: I would like to top dress the bucklings' feed with ammonium chloride (http://fiascofarm.com/goats/stones.htm) to help prevent this. I am also unsure if feeding alfalfa at night would be best replaced by only grass hay since alfalfa is higher in calcium). I was feeding free choice baking soda to the herd but read it can contribute to stones so I stopped but have been trying to figure out how to get it to the girls and not the boys.

Here is a helpful link as well to summarize what Coleby writes in her book: http://lindercroft.wordpress.com/category/pat-coleby/

Anyway - any additional feedback on the ideas above, or new ones, is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[redgate]

Coleby doesn't mention trace mineral mixes because it is covered by the kelp. She doesn't offer additional. As far as mixing goes, she creates a mix of 6 parts dolomite to 1 part kelp, 1 part sulfur, and 1 part copper. Personally, I've found a need to change it slightly based on our environment. I use about 6 parts kelp to 1 part of everything else. It's been working great for me. I have found that with good hay and 24/7 access to the kelp mix, I could avoid the herbal mixes. I also use apple cider vinegar in the water, which eliminates the need for ammonium chloride, even a diet of pure alfalfa. As far as your mixed herd, we are also like that. However, my girls only have access to hay/browse 24/7 and the kelp mix and ACV water. Any supplements and grain are given on a case-by-case basis, usually via the milkstand. Hope that helps!

[moonspinner]

I'm interested to find out how everyone who follows Coleby's care handles her copper regimen? Most criticisms I've read are staunchly against copper sulfate, saying it could lead to toxicity and even death. I have noticed some signs of copper deficiency in my herd that don't seem to resolve from copper bolusing. How much/often sulfate do Coleby followers use?
Also, the fact that Pat is from Australia - does she address other environments in her books? I have to assume goat management in that country can be wildly different from US regions.

[redgate]

If you are just starting out, and you feel your goats are showing signs of deficiency, then I recommend using this method:
http://u-sayranch.com/main/2010/01/i...er-deficiency/

If, after one week of treatment, you see a difference, then you wait one week, and repeat for another week. If you DON"T see any change, then you stop there. It severely decreases the chance of overdoing it on the copper. So far, I've always seen good results. As she talks about in her book, if you are really worried, just give a dose of dolomite and vitamin C as well as the copper, and that pretty much eliminates the risk also, as they help the liver process the copper as needed.

So, far, I have found in times of stress, after freshening, or anytime a new goat arrives, they usually need supplementation. If they have regular access to FRESH kelp, then they maintain pretty well after that. Hope that helps.

[brettz]

That is helpful, thank you.

And this may be a petty question but how much ACV do you put in the water? I just put a healthy splash in. Originally I was feeding them from pretty small (gallon) buckets but once my doe started nursing I noticed it empty when it had never been before. So I upped it to a 5-gal bucket that I change daily but not sure what the ratio would be for ACV.

[redgate]

ACV is no exact science, really. Most of the year, I give the equivalent of maybe 1/2 cup in a 5 gallon bucket, and a couple months before freshening, I might up it to about 1 cup per bucket. I think it would be hard to OD like that. If the diet is high in alfalfa, you'd go a little more, whereas if it's high in mixed grasses, you could go less. Hope that helps.

[brettz]

Yep, it does. Thanks!

[smwon]

Originally Posted by brettz

I am reading this book as well and would like to tweak our feeding to follow her's a little more closely. I read some other threads on this forum on nutrition that were helpful as well.

From what I understand with Pat Coleby's recipe, you'd mix equal parts alfalfa chaff, oat chaff and rolled wheat or wheat bran. Then you soak 1/2 part whole barley, adding trace minerals and apple cider vinegar to the water it soaks in. You would mix in 2t dolomite and 1t sulfur before feeding. Top dressing with sunflower seeds is good but keep it at no more than 1 tablespoon per goat. You'd feed about 1 quart of this twice a day for a full-sized goat. I assume about 1 quart total for a mini? Feed free choice seaweed meal and rock salt. And feed free choice grass hay.

She does not go into detail about how you mix (or buy pre-mixed) trace minerals. I currently feed loose minerals free-choice (Sweetlix Meat Maker). If you have free-choice minerals I assume you do not need to add it to the water when soaking the barley?

I also am going to start top-dressing the feed with Diamond XP-DFM.

Currently I feed grass hay in the morning and alfalfa at night. Right now all of my goats are housed together, which is proving a little difficult as they have different dietary needs. I have one lactating doe. One 3-month pregnant doe, one 10-month doeling who is fat, one 1-month doeling, 3 1-month of bucklings. I pull mom away to give her a dairy goat feed top dressed with fiasco farms 'mo milk herbal mix. I also give her a small amount of sunflower seeds and I give the other two adults a small handful of seeds to get them off my back when I pull the other out. It seems like it would be better for all if I could have free-choice grass hay and then give the above recipe to each goat as needed. I could feed the kids separately and the two does on the milk stand. Fatty can have a nibble to feel included.

Regarding urinary calculi: I would like to top dress the bucklings' feed with ammonium chloride (http://fiascofarm.com/goats/stones.htm) to help prevent this. I am also unsure if feeding alfalfa at night would be best replaced by only grass hay since alfalfa is higher in calcium). I was feeding free choice baking soda to the herd but read it can contribute to stones so I stopped but have been trying to figure out how to get it to the girls and not the boys.

Here is a helpful link as well to summarize what Coleby writes in her book: http://lindercroft.wordpress.com/category/pat-coleby/

Anyway - any additional feedback on the ideas above, or new ones, is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Thanks for the quote!

[smwon]

Originally Posted by moonspinner

I'm interested to find out how everyone who follows Coleby's care handles her copper regimen? Most criticisms I've read are staunchly against copper sulfate, saying it could lead to toxicity and even death. I have noticed some signs of copper deficiency in my herd that don't seem to resolve from copper bolusing. How much/often sulfate do Coleby followers use?
Also, the fact that Pat is from Australia - does she address other environments in her books? I have to assume goat management in that country can be wildly different from US regions.

Coleby says that as long as you are giving dolomite with the copper there no chance of over dosing... I gave 1/7 teaspoon per day to my goats per her instructions.

[tlance]

Check out www.backinbalanceminerals.com.

[smwon]

I have always used the Jolly German site (Goat World) for the minerals. However, recently I found another source. http://www.natures-acres.com/