Question about colostrum.

[Donna1982]

Two of our girls are due any second. So my question for you can I milk out the colostrum now before they are even in labor so I can heat treat it? I have an issue with making the babies wait after birth for me to milk the girls out and then heat treat. I read online that you can but wanted to hear from you guys.

Thanks.

[Ford Zoo]

It will be interesting to see what others say. When I had my first goat, I milked her a bit during the week before she was due because I thought she was too engorged (she was just being a normal goat). It didn't bother her a bit and she delivered right on time. If yours are due, I don't think it would hurt to take a bit off, but seems I've read that can induce labor.

[IndyGardenGal]

I wouldn't, because you could stimulate contractions without an open cervix. I have heard that some people will milk out when they know the doe is in labor, but I keep powdered colostrum around to make it easier on me.

[Donna1982]

Their due dates are today but as of last time I checked (an hour or so ago) they still have their ligs and acting normal. Besides Cherry screaming and she wont shut up. I thought I read some where (can't remember where as it was 3 am I was reading) that it didn't cause contractions. I surely do not want to bring on labor if they are not ready.

I do have some powder colostrum from last year. This is the stuff... http://www.kvsupply.com/KVVet/produc...w#.UPbtLWf6Pm4. How do you use it since it says to milk with milk or milk replacer?

[IndyGardenGal]

I've not used that. I usually just use the cattle kind that is mixed with water. I know the one that premier1 sells is said to have good results.

Milking may or may not cause contractions. I had a goat that I was getting ready to dry off when she kidded (breeding dates were off), and obviously she was fine. I'm sure there are a number of factors that would determine if it would affect it or not.

[trnubian]

I also, know of people who milk out when in labor to make the does more comfortable if they are "really, full. I don't think I would milk them unless they were in labor. I think I also read somewhere (not completely for sure on this) that the colostrum is not as good as it will be until they have actually kidded. So the stuff you get before could be lower quality?

That powdered colostrum that you have is a supplement, not a replacer. You want to use a replacer. If in a pinch I will use the calf replacer at our farm store. Make sure it is a replacer with a high ammount of immuglobins, not a supplement. That being said, it isn't going to hurt the babies to get a little bit of colostrum replacer to buy you some time to get that colostrum heat treated. If you give them a couple ounces of the replacer within an hour or so of birth, that will buy you some time to heat treat her colostrum.

Also, the second milking you get out of her I would heat treat and freeze for next year so you don't have to worry about this anymore.

[Frosted Mini's]

It should not be a problem to milk before kidding, the contractions it causes won't hurt anything (they are mild). However, the milk they make does not have antibodies in it until shortly before birth, so it won't really do much good. You can wait until the does are in active labor to milk them, which will get you colostrum to pre-heat-treat, and also help stimulate the does labor a bit. If your first doe kids with more than her kids need for their first feeding, you could save some for the next does' kids, at least enough for their first feeding, then use the colostrum that doe makes for her kids' next feedings and freeze some for the first babies of next year (or if you have some does due later).

[Backfourty,MI.]

I would wait until they go into labor or just after. You should be able to milk out enough colostrum for each kid in no time. Give them all a little then milk her some more.

[Donna1982]

Thanks everyone. Okay so what did we buy if that is not replacer? lol

[SpiderLegs]

You have plenty of time after she kids. Assuming she has not been tested and that is why you need to heat treat.....
Grab kids, bring inside to help dry while you are heating colostrum. You can cool it quickly by adding cold whole cows milk. Give them their first bottle and return to draft free pen where they can not nurse from another doe.

[trnubian]

Originally Posted by Donna1982

Thanks everyone. Okay so what did we buy if that is not replacer? lol

You bought a supplement to add to milk or colostrum to increase itms quality.

[Donna1982]

Originally Posted by SpiderLegs

You have plenty of time after she kids. Assuming she has not been tested and that is why you need to heat treat.....
Grab kids, bring inside to help dry while you are heating colostrum. You can cool it quickly by adding cold whole cows milk. Give them their first bottle and return to draft free pen where they can not nurse from another doe.

My goats are CAE free but we still pratice CAE prevention we pull everything at birth. I am not even allowing the doe to see them. We let Monkey raise her son last year and had to pull him around 3 days and she cried so much I gave him back. It broke my heart. I will not go through that again.

Originally Posted by trnubian

You bought a supplement to add to milk or colostrum to increase itms quality.

Thank you.

[notbutanapron]

I think I'm missing something. Heat treat colostrum? We just let our goats kid and put them on the udder, make sure they drink and grab some colostrum ourselves to freeze for emergencies. Am I missing something?

[mygoat]

I would not feed anything to the kids but real colostrum asap after birth. Making them wait an an hour and a half to 2 hrs for their first meal is doable. I've done it many a time. You could milk them while they're in early labor and have the colostrum heat treating if you can have someone in the barn watching the doe and the other watching the colostrum in the house - but be VERY sure they ARE in labor. I would not use colostrum replacer instead. Your window of opportunity for colostrum delivery to kids is 'asap', but preferably before 4 hrs old. So, even if you waited to milk the doe immediately after kidding (which is what I normally do), then you still have time to heat treat and get it in the kids much before 2 hours old.

Feed colostrum out of your oldest does to the new doelings born (if possible), and feed colostrum from younger does to bucklings. Doelings are worth more than bucklings so you want to ensure they get the best start and bucklings are near to worthless for the most part. Still deserve colostrum but if you have to choose, choose to feed the doelings higher quality. If you have tons of high quality colostrum on hand, then by all means feed the entire kid crop the best.

I tend to use 'this years' colostrum to feed doelings, and 'last years' colostrum to bucklings. First bottle kids of the year born almost always get 'last years' colostrum though, because it's what I have.

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by notbutanapron

I think I'm missing something. Heat treat colostrum? We just let our goats kid and put them on the udder, make sure they drink and grab some colostrum ourselves to freeze for emergencies. Am I missing something?

Possibly - ever heard of CAE?

CAE is destroyed when milk is pasteurized or when colostrum is 'heat treated'. Heat treating is raising the temp to 138* for one hour. No hotter, because colostrum turns into a very thick pudding any higher than that.

Many dairy folk pull all kids born and put them on the bottle, for several reasons :

1. Doelings easier to tame and, IMO, make better milk stand does in the future. Dam raised doelings can be friendly if you have ample time to tame them. At our farm, we don't have time to tame dam raised kids. Bottle kids are guaranteed tame for their buyers and for us.
2. Kids are easy to catch, very friendly
3. does can be milked completely from the start by the owner
4. CAE prevention (biggie!) ALSO GENERAL DISEASE TRANSMISSION REDUCTION
5. Bucklings are generally worthless, can be sold on the bottle at just a few days old to get them from taking up your resources (milk, dewormer, cocci prvention etc)
6. You can sell doelings on the bottle at a few days to a few weeks old, instead of 2+ months old.
7. Cocci prevention much easier
8. don't have to share as much milk with the kids (can ration their intake so you can use/sell the other portion)
9. doe bonds with the owner instead of kids

All depends on your situation. CAE negative does can dam raise their kids without giving their kids CAE. Also, as stated, dam raised kids can be very friendly if you spend enough time with them. If your situation permits, dam raising may work well for you. For here, we want all extra kids sold and out of our hair as soon as feasible so they're not costing us money. We want our sale and keeper doelings to be guaranteed handleable, and with our herd size we cannot tame all the dam raised kids. We have milk shares, so reducing the number of kids dependant on our milk supply is important to us. And finally, bottle kids are easier for us to manage due to my father doing most of the chores and me only being home on the weekends to do more 'special' procedures.

[Hollowdweller]

I wouldn't worry about that.

I'd just let the kids be born, milk the doe and then do the colostrum and feed the kids.

Some of my kids come out wanting to suck. I have had some that only took a few sucks the first 8 hours or so, so little I was beginning to worry and then they went all out.

I don't think it hurts the kids in the least to even wait several hours to eat.

Normally if doe is going to kid I stay home. Once the kids are born and I feed them, no matter how much that is, I go to work and come back and feed them after I get off.

I've had kids only drink maybe a shot glass of colostrum or less, I've put them under the heat lamp went to work for 8 hours and came home and they ate and were fine.

Where I have found problems is feeding them too frequently. I find that if I feed kids any closer than about 6 hours apart that they have a tendency to get the runs.

I know somebody who was forever having the runs in their kids but they were feeding like 4 hours apart like 4 times a day. They were giving them drugs for e coli and all sort of other stuff and I think they were just overfeeding them.

[Natural Beauty Farm]

Hmmm maybe they were just feeding too much. Here we do 1oz average an hour for the first day. Some kids get fed every 2 hrs round the clock, because that is all we can get into them at a time, 2 oz. Telling someone that a newborn can survive for 8+ hours, which is 9-10hrs with drive time without a meal or on just 1oz (shot glass) is IMO setting them up for failure.
We have a lot of newbies here this time of year, lots of kids being born into inexperienced homes, there is a lot of bad information out there, everyone please watch what you post. Nobody wants to be responsible for someone reading a post and doing something that will endanger their goats.

[mygoat]

I usually do 6-8 oz bottles of colostrum for first feeding. If I got less than 4oz down a kid, I'd probably tube 'em if they acted too weak/didn't desire more. My problem is kids looking for MORE after their bottles, usually! After the first bottle of colostrum, I try to offer pasteurized milk fresh from the recently kidded doe, but have used canned milk from previous season. If I am able, I mix in 50/50 colostrum/milk for 2nd feeding. Much past that and you're not doing any good anyways feeding valueable colostrum to them - their ability to absorb Ig is drastically reduced as the hours tick by.

I tend to start them out on a few feedings every 4 hrs, then go to every 6 hrs pretty quick. I get them to 3x per day pretty quick too - by a few days. I feed quite a bit per feeding to do this, never had problematic scours, nor issues with passive immunity failure (E.coli/Salmonella scours). I've had rare pasty-butts, but a pinch of baking soda or dash of kaolin pectin cures every time thus far.

For newbies, I'd suggest following 'the book'. Find a bottle feeding schedule and stick to it. You can modify it carefully with experience, but to start it may be best to follow a knowledgeable person's advice.

[Frosted Mini's]

Frequent feedings with newborns is key. I usually give them as much as they want. Never had any issues with scours in new babies. It is NORMAL for babies to have a yellow, not very formed poop as a newborn...after the black tarry meconium stuff.

[Hollowdweller]

Originally Posted by Frosted Mini's

Frequent feedings with newborns is key. I usually give them as much as they want. Never had any issues with scours in new babies. It is NORMAL for babies to have a yellow, not very formed poop as a newborn...after the black tarry meconium stuff.

That's interesting. I hae been bottle feeding since 1994 and only feed them 3x a day (usually at 7am 6pm and 11pm) the first day or so and then usually feed as much as they will drink at 7am and 6pm and never had any problems.