Older doe question (long)

GoldenWood Farm · #1 01/04/13, 01:08 PM

Okay for those of you who have elderly or older does in your herd I have a question for you. My old girl Brandy (coming up on 11yrs) who has always been a very hardy and healthy doe I noticed has lost some weight this winter (more than usual) but that I am guessing is just older age and I am going to start graining her.

Now my question is I noticed a day or so ago her really limping on one of her back legs. I checked her out this morning and was astounded to find the muscle on that back thigh (is that correct?) almost nonexistent and she seems so weak on that leg

. What is making her limp I believe is her pastern, it seems slightly swollen and hot to the touch. I am guessing she hyper extended it or twisted it some how hence why she is limping.

I felt her other "thigh" to see how much muscle she has on that one and it seems she has a bit more on that side. That side could have felt that way just because of how she has to stand due to her hurt pastern. I know that as you age you loose muscle tone but I was just shocked at what I felt. I need some validation that she is actually okay except for her hurt pastern/foot.

This girl is my baby and the thought of this being something way more serious than just a hurt pastern devastates me. I know I am probably over reacting just a bit but with her weight loss and now feeling how weak her muscles feel to me is just shocking. I haven't paid much attention to it because she is always frisky (except for those extra cold mornings when she is a bit stiff).

I ordered her some joint supplements today and tomorrow she is getting a goat coat to help keep weight on her better. I have her penned up in her own pen inside the larger pen (much to her dismay as she is in heat and wants to flirt with the boys across the pasture). Tell me I am just being a over protective mommy and she really is fine except for old age catching up with her!

She seems in good spirits and is quite bright eyed and bushy tailed (except for her poor weak leg/limp). I hate it when your favorite ones do this to you!

Justine

dozedotz · #2 01/04/13, 02:11 PM

Oh, Justine! I'm so sorry your girl is old! Why do they have to get old? I hope you can make her remaining time good.
We took our 14 year old, blind, cancer-ridden dog to his final vet visit yesterday. I cried like there would be no tommorow. I embarassed the vet, his assistant and almost my darling husband...until he started to cry, too! God bless you and your girl.

CaliannG · #3 01/04/13, 02:17 PM

Hmmm, Justine, when was the last time she had a Bo-Se shot?

In goats, dairy goats especially, weak pasterns and muscle loss in older animals can develop from selenium deficiency. As breeders, we often give Bo-Se pre-breeding and/or pre-kidding...but when we retire a beloved doe from breeding, they often don't get the supplements they need.

Older does often need to be treated like milking does in terms of supplements and nutrition, even if they are not breeding and producing. If they ARE still breeding and producing, then they need a bit extra of everything, because their older bodies don't process nutrients and trace minerals like they used to.

~grinz~ I know I can't say anything, as I know very well that *I* don't process nutrients and trace minerals like I used to either.

Alice In TX/MO · #4 01/04/13, 03:34 PM

You can also get some "senior horse" feed for her if you suspect that her teeth aren't up to regular feed. It's ground and pelleted. Easier to eat and digest.

Hollowdweller · #5 01/04/13, 03:42 PM

In my experience goats get old and skinny after a certain point.

dozedotz · #6 01/04/13, 04:02 PM

Hollowdweller, LOL! Really! Bring me back to earth, honey! Sounds like my darling boy who says, "You get old...you die." Still, I have to tell you, he cried when they put down that old dog yesterday. We have to keep our flat feet on the ground..but sometimes, you just cry while you're doing it.

Frosted Mini's · #7 01/04/13, 04:26 PM

I wonder if she didn't have an old injury on that one side that went unnoticed and is finally catching up to her. With the muscle atrophy on that side, that is usually from an injury of some kind, and I don't know about goats, but with dogs & cats, it would generally take a few weeks to notice a difference between the two sides.

I agree on the Bo-Se, and she can have it if she hasn't gotten it in the last 3 weeks. It will help with immunity as well. Do you have or can you get some banamine? I'd give her some for 2-3 days and see if that helps too. Arthritis supplements are a good idea, and the horse feed. They make some feeds that are "complete feeds" for old horses, and they have all the nutrition they would need without even eating hay; if I get really old ladies here in the future (I only hope!), then I'll probably get some of that for them, since teeth problems can happen as they age, and makes it hard for them to eat hay. You can check her molars from the outside by pushing along her cheek-if she's missing teeth, there will be a dent.

I need to find my notes, but I went to a talk that Lauren Acton gave at the ADGA convention about senior goat care...it was really interesting; lots of good ideas.

Laverne · #8 01/04/13, 09:37 PM

Since we're in the same general area, I have dealt with back leg gimpiness and down in pasterns and have always tracked it down to Liverfluke and it's buddy Lungworm. They go hand in hand. They put out toxins and resulting inflammation and it seems to effect the goat in the lower back which effects a hind limb, more the right hind in my goats case. Anyone who lives in the Pacific NW should use IvomecPlus to get rid of this possibility, just in case, since neither may show in a fecal, especially in winter.
I have also seen gimpiness from vitamin D deficiency so I give that through the winter. Calcium just will not absorb well without it, especially so in our climate. This keeps my girls milking through winter nicely. I recommend 6000 iu of D to start then 2000 iu once a week after that till the sun comes out in spring.
A thin goat around here would get a coat so energy to keep warm would be put to better use, like weight gain. In fact my milkers wear coats this time of year and it sure cuts down on the feed bill.

GoldenWood Farm · #9 01/04/13, 11:14 PM

To be clear she isn't down in her pasterns in the least. Rather on her gimpy side she is holding her foot cocked a little bit unless she walks on it because it hurts. She always get her BOSE and Copper Bolus just like everyone else right on time and has been eating her hay with gusto. Her last BOSE and copper bolus was on October 10th 2012. Should I go ahead and give her another BOSE shot anyways? I am picking up some Senior horse feed for the bucks and she will be getting some as well. She doesn't appear to have any problems eating her hay that I can see (always has large mouth fulls).

Frosted Mini's I do have banamine (I scored a whole bottle from my vet!) and I was wondering if it was an old injury as well. I could be just over reacting by saying the muscle is atrophied and it could be like I said because she hasn't been bearing any weight on it really. But she just seems weak on that leg but then again it could be because of her hurt pastern (guessing on the pastern).

My thought is she twisted her back foot in one of the many @#$! rat holes we have out in the pasture. But when I felt how small/flabby the muscle was I was rather shocked. I guess in my eyes she still is my young spring chicken and putting that image with my older girl is hard to compute.

I am planning on having her teeth floated in the next month (when I have more money) to double check all her teeth are good and she has no sharp edges.

Laverne thank you for the Vit. D idea! I take some myself (well now I have been using a light box which helps even more) and I never thought to give it to the goats. I will also be ordering her goat coat tomorrow and I help that helps keep her weight better.

I came home tonight from work and the stinker got herself back out of her small pen so she could walk the fence and talk to the boys

. She may be getting on in years but she is still a hussy

.

Keep those ideas coming though!

Justine

CaliannG · #10 01/05/13, 12:45 AM

If she got her regular Bo-Se injection, I don't see a need to add another.

Without a deficiency, it sounds like an minor injury. Goats twist things, or bend things too, as they age. In my youth, if I rolled my ankle, I walked it off for about a half an hour. Now, if I roll my ankle, it hurts for a day and a half.

Guess I am no spring chicken either.

Although my hubby, bless his heart, swears that I am younger than tomorrow's dawn and always will be.

GoldenWood Farm · #11 01/05/13, 12:50 PM

Well her foot is no better today so I wrangled her back into her pen this time along with our small whether Milo (who is in looove with her right now since she is in heat). I also put a sweatshirt on her to help keep her warm until her coat shows up. I figure Milo along with the sweatshirt will help keep her warm and Milo is company if the does head out to the pasture. It is a win win situation for right now. I just hope her foot starts healing fast, I hate to keep her cooped up for long.

Stubborn old cuss still wanted to walk to the fence to tease the boys even with her hurt foot. She had the boys blubbering all night long last night! (right outside my window I might add

).

Thank you CaliannG for replying, I had figured since her BOSE was given just 2 months ago I didn't see how she could already be deficient but you never know. She has always been a very hard and healthy goat, the only time she got really sick was when she got a infection from a really hard delivery but even then she pulled through like a champ. To see her be so lame just from a twisted foot breaks my heart

.

Why do our girls have to get older and start showing their age? Yesterday was a bad day as well because it marked a year since I put down my old boy Riot (my dog) and then when Brandy came up lame the worst possible scenarios went racing through my mind.

Justine