Freaking Out About Money

[madrona]

Hi All - it's the newbie again with my zillion questions.

Can y'all talk to me about goats and money? I would never buy an animal I couldn't take care of but money is really tight. Once the upfront costs of setting up goats (fencing, shelter, buying the goats themselves) are over, do you think they can kind of pay for themselves?

We'll have 2 goats, and milk either one or both. Is it reasonable to expect that I can butcher and freeze the bucklings (we'd pay to have it done) that are born and sell the does? And the monthly cost of food, medicine, random vet visits...How does that all play out for you guys in comparison to how much milk/meat you get?

We want to do this for so many reasons, first of all is being able to feed my family nutritious, natural food, and second is the enjoyment we'll get from the goats. But we sure as heck can't afford to do this "just for fun".

As an aside, we have 12 chickens that lay between 65 - 70 eggs a week (1/3 of the eggs are a friends' - we eat the rest, but could probably sell a dozen a week for $3 and still have more than enough). We feed them organic feed so a dozen eggs works out to less than $2. Especially since we're totally in love with our chickens, I definitely consider that more than breaking even.

Anyhow - if you made it this far, thanks for reading my novel

I'd really love to hear your thoughts about goats and money.

[bluefish]

A lot of this is really going to depend on your location, property and management. I have some acreage and let my goats out to pasture so my feed bill for the summer is pretty minimal. I also live in area with relatively cheap alfalfa hay. My feed expenses are hay for 6-9 months of the year, depending on the weather that year, and a little grain. I don't feed near the grain on the stand that most people do, but that's mostly because of cost. This year it's costing me about $250 in feed per goat.

We go through 4-5 gallons of milk a week for just drinking. When you throw in the cheese, sour cream, kefir and all the other stuff I make with the milk, we're already ahead monetarily.

In my area, it's hard to sell goats. Your area may be different. I also butcher my goats myself as it's way to expensive here to have it done. $70 a goat. We don't really like to eat goat, but it's great food for the dogs so that also is 'money in the bank' so to speak, as I feed raw.

I don't really keep track of what I spend in medication and mineral, but I bet it still comes out cheaper than buying all the dairy products that we use as we use a LOT of cheese and milk and stuff.

[Donna1982]

For us this is purely a hobby. We show because we love being in the ring and we have goats because we love them. I do not expect making money off them and never have going into it. I TOTALLY understand money being tight, one of the reason we started selling our soap instead of doing it fun. For as far as the goats go they are pets mostly and if we did break even (doubt it) I would be tickled pink.

[harvestmoonfarm]

With any farm animal you're going to have unexpected expenses, so you need to figure that in and, if possible, save for it. One of my kids last year was born with entropion and had to see the vet twice to take care of it. In May one of my gilts (pigs) got pneumonia, but my vet let me go to her house and pick up the medicine, so there was no farm call involved. In August that same sow farrowed with her first litter, and the piglets got stuck - emergency farm call - and all died. In November I had dogs attack my pregnant does, and had to have the vet out to euthanize one and treat another - another emergency farm call.

I'm not trying to scare you, but things happen and you have to be prepared. We're blessed in that our vet will bill and let us make payments, but you have to build a relationship with them before you get to that point.

The milk, cheese, yogurt, kefir, etc. that you can use from your goats will definitely help offset your grocery bill, but does in late pregnancy and/or lactating need extra feed in the form of dairy goat feed and good hay. When mine aren't lactating, they graze, and in the colder months they also get hay (which we baled here on our farm). There's also the cost of minerals, etc.

You'll save money if you learn to process your own bucklings (there are a lot of great videos on YouTube), and the meat from them will also help offset your grocery bill because that will be meat you don't have to buy. Another great source of meat is your chickens. I had several hens go broody last year, and ended up with far more roosters than hens out of the clutches hatched. We're processing extra roosters this weekend, so that's more meat in the freezer.

We're not rich by any means - we live week to week - but we make this work because it's what we love and it's important to us to be as self-sufficient as possible. Only you can determine what works for you and your family, but we're here to help you get through it.

[chamoisee]

Gonna be frank here: generally speaking, you will do well with goats if you break even. The ways to do this are to buy the BEST bloodlines you can afford and breed to registered bucks so that the kids will be worth something and can be sold to cover their dam's room and board. It costs the same amount, sometimes less (!) to feed a higher quality registered dairy goat and to get her safely through a pregnancy and to raise her registered kids, as it does to do all that for a grade doe and her kids. After the initial cost in breeding stock, the rest of the expenses are the same, only you recoup your money by selling the kids.

The other thing that will help to break even is to sell the extra milk if you can get away with that. If you have an infant or small child who is allergic to cow's milk, then never mind: you will save a lot of money in store bought goat milk and medical bills by keeping your own goats.

[bluefish]

You know, another thing to think about is, how attached do you get to your livestock? Goats are VERY easy to get attached to, but if money is an issue, you'll have to cull. Whether it's by selling or eating or whatever. I only have the money to support a certain number of goats. If one doesn't produce what or how I need it to, it has to go. And that can be very hard!! I would love to be one of those who can monetarily support all those cute, sweet goats that I end up with, but I can't.

I have a specific breeding goal that I work towards. Everything that doesn't make the cut or just is 'extra' I try and sell. If it doesn't sell, it gets butchered.

Nobody wants to think about it, especially before you even have the animals, but it needs to planned for/around.

[chamoisee]

Culling, yes. Another reason to buy the best quality animals with very good dispositions, so as to be able to keep them for a long time on a sustainable basis! :-)

[Cyngbaeld]

Dairy bucklings are not worth raising unless they are from such good bloodlines and are registered, that you can get a good price for them. Otherwise, it is best to put them in the freezer asap (as in day one) or sell/give them 'soaking wet' to someone who is willing to mess with them. Dollar wise, it is better to give away a newborn buckling than to keep it for a week or two trying for a sale.

If you can grow most of the feed for the goats, and you are basically feeding your family, you should come out ahead with a couple of dairy does. The excess milk and whey can be used for your chickens.

My goats are the most cost effective thing I have on my farm.

I do not haul them to the vet for anything. If I can't treat it myself, I cull. If they are sick, not injured and don't get over it pronto without me going to a lot of work and expense, they are culled. That goes for all my livestock. If you cull hard for everything you will have much healthier animals that don't NEED vet care except for injuries.

[bluefish]

Another thought, sorry, I can't seem to get this all out in one shot.

Anyway, it'll probably take you a year or two, at least, to get YOUR management program down. Therefore, your first couple years may be more expensive. I know mine were.

After a bit I realized that I didn't have to EVERYTHING that everybody was telling me to. My situation was different. As one small example. I breed my goats to kid in May. I don't generally sell many, I don't show and it's dang cold up here in Jan/Feb, so why was I doing this to myself? I changed my way of doing things. I saved a bit of money, time, effort and wear and tear on myself by that one small change. People who breed Jan/Feb are not wrong, it just wasn't for me. Make any sense?

The same principle applies to many of the way I do things with my goats. I've worked out the most cost effective way for ME to raise mine in MY specific circumstances. Not that it won't change again, later.

When I started with goats, I figured up, roughly, what I spent in dairy products and that was my 'maintenance' ceiling. After set up and intial purchase of animals, I have to stay below that cost or I might as well be buying from the store. Here, it would cost me $120/month just for milk and cheese for my family. Therefore, my goats averaged throughout the year cannot cost me more than that. For my at the moment, that also includes new additions to the herd.

[harvestmoonfarm]

I do understand most people promoting buying registered, quality animals. However, when someone is just getting started, and especially after they've stated money is already tight, this kind of advice can be intimidating and can keep someone from getting into dairy goats. I bought my first dairy doe almost 3 years ago and spent $125 on her. She's healthy, happy, throws triplets and gives 1.5 gallons a day when in milk. Since I could care less about papers or showing, she serves the purpose I bought her for - providing myself and my family with lots and lots of great milk, cheese, caramel, kefir, etc. Again, I understand promoting quality goats, but there are great ones out there that don't, for whatever reason, have papers, and they do a marvelous job of providing for their owners

[hiddensprings]

There are a lot of variables that comes into place when determing whether your goats will pay for themselves. Like others have said, it depends on your pasture situation, the cost of inputs in your area, and your ability to treat them yourself vs. calling the vet. We've truly divesified our operation so my dairy goats are profitable for me. In addition to providing for all of our dairy needs, I make soap, and raise bottle calves that I get from a dairy right down the road. In turn, all of my bucklings are sold to the hispanic guys that work at the dairy for their eating pleasure. I sell the calves at 6 months old and average about $350-$400 per calf. (I buy them for $60) It takes about a goat and 1/2 to raise a calf, but I've grown my dairy herd to where I can support 4 calves at a time or 8 a year. I have a great vet that works with me and I can get any medication I need from him but treat myself. So I don't have to have him come to the farm. I sell the majority of my doelings and all of my bucks. I have both registered and non-registered so I am able to capture a wider range of folks to buy.

[chamoisee]

I can understand that; my herd was upgraded from a bred 75% grade and she was a good milker. Her daughter (American) was even better. I did not recover much money from their kids, but they were good milkers. I wish I had started out differently, but we all survived.

So another thought I have on this topic is: given the choice between being able to afford one really good goat and 2 average ones, get the good one. Keep as few animals as you can to achieve your goals even though this may seem counterintuitive. They eat a lot and hay is expensive!

By good quality and "best you can afford", I don't mean that it has to be a grand champion in the show ring. I do mean that she should be tested and proven disease free and from very reputable breeders who will help you out *after* you buy her if you have any questions or need advice. She should be productive and have sound feet, legs and udder with easy to milk teats. And----> she should have a personality that you like!!! I would expect to pay between $200-$400. If you can get her bred or get her with an agreement to be bred back in the fall, that is ideal.

In case anyone's wondering, I don't breed goats any longer or sell breeding stock, so am not trying to promote my business....just an attempt to share the hindsight I wish I'd had beforehand. :-P

[Dusky Beauty]

We do our own butchering and plan to do our own disbudding and banding. My experience with vetting is that a good diet and preventative care and being super aware of hazards in your enclosure and keeping stuff picked up (hay string, trash blowing in etc.) does a lot to prevent the vet visits. The only time in recent years I have had to call a vet was to do a well cow checkup on my first heifer that came with no records but a good attitude and I didn't know beans about cows.
Everything else has all been preventative and self care in vaccines, blood draws, antibiotics as needed, etc.

Haven't needed them for the goats (yet, knock on wood) or the house pets, or the birds. The one time I called about a horse issue they sent out a tech instead of the vet anyway and I did all the actual treatment myself.

[Hollowdweller]

Goats are probably a money loser overall.

[TRAILRIDER]

My six goats are costing me about 3.00 a day in feed right now. That's around 1.00 a day for hay ( we grow our own, pay 357.00 in the spring for baling etc) and -2.00 for grain. The mix I use is 14.00 a bag and only lasts about 10 days. That feeds all six, including 4 pregnant or milking does and 2 fat bucks. Yeah, I know my time, water, electric etc is all costing something too.
The one doe that is still milking is giving me 1/2 a gallon a day, and when they are really milking my two good does give 1+ gallons each. Its more than enough for the two of us.
I normally would not spend 3.00 a day on milk, but I plan to make cheese this year, and I already make yogurt when the milk is plentiful. But like evryone else has said it really depends where you live, how you work your herd. I'd keep my goats if they cost me twice that and never produced any babies to sell. And I refuse to drink ANY other kind of milk now, goats milk is worth 3 X the price of store bought cows milk.
This year for the first time I'm planning on raising a lamb or two on excess milk : )

[littlequail]

your not going to get rich but you will have a little extra money when you sell off a kid or adult. if you want a doe in milk she will cost you a very pretty penny, If you want milk in the up and coming months your going to need a doe who has been bred and due with kids....as for food...you cant get something for nothing....which means...you can set her off to Pasture (by the way you want 2 because goats are group animals) and have her eat off the land and then get sweet and wonderful goats milk.....Your going to need a rich grain based diet *just goat feed alone is abut $19 a bag* to feed every day when you are milking or to give her to keep up her production....so After buying the fencing,shelter,feed, goat supplies (hoof care and a basic first aid kit) your also going to need milking supplies and if you want to drink the doe's milk look into testing, What am trying to say is If your having a problem with money right now save up Use this time to gain even more info on goats!

[Whisperwindkat]

Like others said it depends on management, where you are located, and how much you can do yourself. We have a mutt herd that suits us just fine. They cost us average for the year about 3.00 a day to feed a herd of 7. Vet costs run us about 75.00 a year for the herd, barring any major problems. However, we grow food for them in the garden, we have plenty of browse on our 10 acres, we have pasture 9 months out of the year and we cull hard keepers and low producers. From our goats we get plenty of meat for the freezer, bones for the dogs, meat for the chickens and cats(livers, kidneys, hearts, lungs)and milk. We make cheese, yogurt, ice cream, and keep my mother in milk for her coffee. We have even had milk to help out a neighbor when things were tight for them. We have extra milk to feed pigs, chickens, dogs and cats which cuts down their feed bills. We do all of our own processing and our freezer goats are raised on mama's milk and browse with very little grain. We don't spend a lot of money on high end vet costs to save goats with major problems. Those goats are culled from my herd. Unlike others I did not buy the "best". Actually I probably bought the worst to start my herd. I started with two American nubians that were not registered, but they were tested. However, they were wild as deer. Took me weeks before I could even get close to one of them and the other one took about a year before she trusted me enough to get close to her. She is still flighty. They cost me 50.00 each. Then I purchased 3 nubian/boer crosses. No registration, but from a clean tested family herd. I paid 100.00 for all 3. One of the bucklings didn't have the best disposition and wound up in the freezer. The doe has given me twins every year that grow like little boer babies and put weight on fast. The other buckling wound up being my herd sire. Then I bought two nubian/saanen cross does. Again clean closed and tested herd of 3. One doe was pregnant, she had been AI'd. I paid 150.00 for the two of them and the owner was going to be left with one, the mom to both girls and asked if I would take her for free so she wouldn't be alone. So three goats for 150.00. The pregnant doe gave me triplets, I kept the doeling and ate the boys. The other doe has consistently given me twins and milks over a gallon a day once a day milking. She is the easiest goat to milk. She gets on the stand and stands there without being locked in until I am done. However, like her mom she consistently freshens with a congested udder which means her babies are always bottle babies as it takes forever to get her flowing. She is going in the freezer this spring and we do not retain any of her offspring. Mom gave me singles for two years straight, consistently freshened with a congested udder, and hated to be milked. We processed her and traded the meat for a rifle. I have two girls that have both milked through for 18 months straight. I would say that my small herd of mutts has consistently paid for themselves over and over since I have had them. I keep up with my preventive care and watch my goats like a hawk for any problems. However, I tend not to have major problems and those that tend to be hard keepers or unthrifty without constant intervention are culled. So yes, goats can pay for themselves several times over but there are many factors that play into whether they will or not. A friend down the road from me has over a 1000.00 in her little herd of 5. One she got from me for nothing so the other 4 cost her big time. Then there is the buck that she lost this spring to parasite issues after spending major money on vet bills to try and save him. Her goats still look unthrifty and we were comparing costs just a few weeks ago and it costs her twice what mine cost me per day and her vet bills this past year have been enormous. Right around 600.00. So it can depend on the goats too and whether or not they have good genetics or not. And by good genetics I don't mean bloodlines because hers are some of the top bloodlines in the country and they still are having health issues. Hope that helps, Kat

[CaliannG]

As many others have said: It depends.

littlequail pays $19 a bag for feed. I pay $11.65 a 50 lb bag for 18% lactation pellet. Someone that has to pay $10 a small square bale of hay is definitely going to have higher feed costs than someone who has several acres of pasture and browse for the goats to munch.

I have a good working relationship with my vet. I do most, although not all, of my own vet work. I handle sickness, and such as that, and if something needs a cast or surgery due to accident, I take it to her. Some do not do it the same way as I do and think it is frivolous of me to get a goat surgery or a cast, or whatever...but honestly, it costs me less to fix the goat than it does for me to replace the goat, and I factor that in. My girls are all proven high producers...and proven high producers don't grow on trees for pennies. (Not saying people don't luck out with buying a cheap doeling or FF that turns out to be a high producer...and those who have lucked out in that fashion are NOT going to be selling that now *proven* doe for the same amount they paid for it, I promise.)

So I figure out vet services in that fashion: What is this animal worth, fixed, if I sold it? What would I have to pay to replace this animal with one of equal capabilities and production? Is the worth of the animal more than the estimated cost of the vet care? If so, then off to the vet we go!

I figured up all of my costs and all of my kid sales, and found out that I was paying $1.92 per gallon of milk. That is WELL below the cost of a commercial, pasteurized gallon of cow milk from the grocery store here ($3.89), and FAR below even a quart of commercial goat milk from the store ($5.38).

Therefore, I am *more* than breaking even on my costs of producing milk rather than buying it.

But MY situation is different from YOUR situation. You may not have 10 acres of browse for your goats. Hay may be higher priced than gold in your area. Grain may as well be bags of silver nuggets. I don't know.

[chewie]

much for me is that I am offering the best to my family. that doesn't show up in the numbers game, but it does count. I know my goats aren't costing me much and I think they do make me a profit. I used to milk 6, and it was nuts. now I milk 2, and its good. I did myself a great favor by keeping small. if I could do AI, I'd do better, as keeping the buck and his pal aren't real efficient. but to not have one was worse.

we are also not well off. we fenced all that is possible, so summer will be easier now with less feed cost. I didn't feed the bucks anything all last summer, and now the does have a large area as well, so this summer will ease up for their feed cost too.

I also don't kid super early. don't show, and hated spending nights in a frigid barn and having the kids so cold. now I kid in march/april. no heat lamps either. those are dangerous and expensive. for me, later works much better.

mine aren't papered, this is not an area that sees value in that, so my non papered but high milkers do well for me. haven't had to sell at the sale barn in 2-3 years. ppl call me and come to my farm to buy the babies.

since I have the browse, if a buckling is born this year without a buyer, he'll be banded and kept for meat, which will be done before I have to give it any feed. and I'll do it myself, it is pretty easy (once hubs does the dirty work of dispatching), and to pay $70 processing isn't feasible.

allow yourself that time to learn as others mentioned. took me a few years to start to 'get it', and I'm learning all the time still, been going on several years now. but I love having them and don't plan to stop anytime soon. even having a tough time financially at times, the goats aren't ever considered as wasteful.

[Frosted Mini's]

There are many ways to save money, you just have to be willing to experiment and do some looking into the things available in your area.

As for raising the bucklings for meat-if you want to do that with a dairy goat, I would suggest either getting a full-size breed and breeding to a meat breed, or breeding with a kinder or pygmy to a mini dairy goat.