Weaning Question

2happymamas · #1 12/27/12, 10:38 PM

I live on 1.5 acres and am planning to get my first goats this spring. Given our small acreage, we are planning to get two Nigerian Dwarfs for milk.

My first thought was to get a first freshener and wether. After talking with some people, I decided to get get two does because 1) they are only in milk for 5 months and 2) Nigerians can be bred year round and we can stagger pregnancies to have milk most of the year.

My question: How should I plan this in terms of animals to get? I can get two first fresheners but I don't know that I want to milk two animals twice per day as a new milker.

I considered purchasing a doe and her baby with the thought that I could let the baby nurse during the day, keep them in separate stalls at night, milk in the morning, and then let them spend the day together. With this plan, the benefit is that I won't have to bottle feed and will only have to milk once per day. One breeder pointed out that I would have to separate the doe and her baby for 2-3 months in order for the baby to wean. Is this true or will the baby naturally wean on its own? If I am understanding, her milk will dry up anyway and the baby would wean. I don't want to separate them because, as we all know, goats want company.

What combination of does would you get? Any ideas?

CaliannG · #2 12/27/12, 11:32 PM

Some does will wean the kids themselves. Some does will not. I had one doe that was still stealing milk from her dam, and he dam allowed it, at 3 years old!

Good milking lines of Nigerian Dwarfs will go a full dairy lactation cycle of 10 months. Those that have been bred as pets, and not for good milk production, have short lactation cycles, as well as other problems that will directly affect you, such as small teats (hard to milk), poor udders, and poor production. Pet bred Nigerians seldom make more milk than their offspring require.

Therefore, if you want Nigerians, get ones from lines that have solid milking backgrounds. I don't know where you are, but here in Texas, one will not go wrong in getting a Jobi doe. Jobi Dairy has been breeding for high production Nigerians for 25 years, as well as good teat size and udder attachments.

I am curious about your dairy needs? (How big of a family do you expect to provide dairy products with these goats? Do you want to make lots of cheese? Or just have enough milk for cereal and coffee in the morning?) And how many goats you see yourself having in the future? How much of your 1.5 acres do you plan to devote to goats?

Also, why did you choose Nigerians?

Welcome to the forum! I am sure others will chime in soon.

2happymamas · #3 12/27/12, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

Some does will wean the kids themselves. Some does will not. I had one doe that was still stealing milk from her dam, and he dam allowed it, at 3 years old!

Good milking lines of Nigerian Dwarfs will go a full dairy lactation cycle of 10 months. Those that have been bred as pets, and not for good milk production, have short lactation cycles, as well as other problems that will directly affect you, such as small teats (hard to milk), poor udders, and poor production. Pet bred Nigerians seldom make more milk than their offspring require.

Therefore, if you want Nigerians, get ones from lines that have solid milking backgrounds. I don't know where you are, but here in Texas, one will not go wrong in getting a Jobi doe. Jobi Dairy has been breeding for high production Nigerians for 25 years, as well as good teat size and udder attachments.

I am curious about your dairy needs? (How big of a family do you expect to provide dairy products with these goats? Do you want to make lots of cheese? Or just have enough milk for cereal and coffee in the morning?) And how many goats you see yourself having in the future? How much of your 1.5 acres do you plan to devote to goats?

Also, why did you choose Nigerians?

Welcome to the forum! I am sure others will chime in soon.

I am planning to get my goats from a dairy farmer who keeps approx. 160 goats at any given time. Therefore, they should be pretty good milkers.

I would like to make cheese and possibly butter, too. Mostly for cereal and cream, though. If possible, I also fantasize about making small batches of soap.

I only see myself keeping two goats at a time. I live in a the suburbs and don't want to push my luck with the neighbors too much. They were already upset to come out of their house and see my meat birds hanging from the trees

Our household consists of two adults, 4 y.o, and 21 month old. We consume about 2 gallons of milk per week now.

We have a five foot chain link fence up and plan to put them out there every morning. I think it's something like 30x80. That's the only part of the yard that is fenced. We plan to put a small lean-to in the yard and then keep them in the barn at night due to coyotes. We chose Nigerians due to their small size (seeing as though we have somewhat limited space) and quality of milk.

Wendy · #4 12/28/12, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Some does will wean the kids themselves. Some does will not. I had one doe that was still stealing milk from her dam, and he dam allowed it, at 3 years old!

I have a Dexter cow that will nurse her calves forever! I finally sold them. She was nursing this year's calf, last year's calf, & my other cow's calf.

I bottle feed all of my kids, so can't help you much there. You can milk just once a day if that's what you want to do. I milk twice, but by fall I cut back to once per day. Doesn't bother the goats at all.

Squeaky McMurdo · #5 12/28/12, 12:38 AM

Why not get a doe and her doeling? That way you will get milk right away and have an up and coming doe to freshen later.

I got my two when my doeling was 2 months. After they got settled in I fashioned a bra for the mama goat to wear at night so the baby couldn't nurse but they could stay together. She has been weaned now, but I would milk in the morning then turn them loose together during the day and put the bra back on at night.

Backfourty,MI. · #6 12/28/12, 06:48 AM

I dam raise my babies & normally my does' usually start weaning their kids when they think the time is right. I've never had any nurse what I consider too long but I have heard their are does' like Caliann's I've just not had any like that yet.

If your getting Nigerians be sure like Caliann said & buy from proven milk herds. A Lot of Nigies are more pet animals than dairy.
KimM here has some really beautiful animals & milk records to prove it. I believe she is in Ohio but not sure where you are. I'm sure there are other folks here with great Nigerian dairy lines but I can't remember them all.

I milked this year only 1 time per day without any problems. We have mini nubians & twice a day milking I would get way too much milk. With 1 a day milking I still gave quite a bit away, made cajeta a few times, making lots of soap, we drink it & I still have 4 gallons in the freezer. My doe is bred & dry right now though.

Welcome to the forum & looking forward to seeing your new girls & hearing about your animals.

andabigmac · #7 12/28/12, 08:36 AM

Welcome! I don't have Nigerians so I can't help with their specifics but I will say that any decent dairy goat will have a longer lactation than 5 months like Calliann said. Just because this breeder has 160 goats that doesn't mean that her goats will be the best fit for your family. Quantity does not make quality. Then again, this breeder's goats may also have the capabilities for long lactations but they breed twice a year because they have a high demand for their goats so they don't ask for long lactations in their goats. I would ask the breeder about this. If you don't want to have to drag your does to visit a buck twice a year I would definitely look into it.
As for whether you should get a mother/daughter or unrelated does, my suggestion would be to go pick out the cutest, healthiest ones and then bring home three.

And then post pictures. Good luck!

2happymamas · #8 12/28/12, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backfourty,MI.

If your getting Nigerians be sure like Caliann said & buy from proven milk herds. A Lot of Nigies are more pet animals than dairy.
KimM here has some really beautiful animals & milk records to prove it. I believe she is in Ohio but not sure where you are. I'm sure there are other folks here with great Nigerian dairy lines but I can't remember them all.

What are good questions to ask? The breeder run a dairy goat farm and I located him through the NDGA website.

andabigmac · #9 12/28/12, 10:08 AM

If you are wanting good milk producers find a breeder that does milk testing and look to see their production records. That is really the only way to be sure you get accurate amounts. Some breeders will exaggerate the amounts. Even if you go watch them milk they can skip the previous milking or milk a bit later so it will seem as though the goat gives more. This is a sore subject for me because I've been burned a few times before.

I hate seeing people who are just getting into goats get burned.

If you live close to the breeder you can ask to see the morning and night milking if they don't keep records. Be aware though that if you move a goat in milk to a new home they may produce less milk for awhile. It usually goes back up to normal. It's just from the stress.

CaliannG · #10 12/28/12, 01:08 PM

Hmmm, 2happymamas, you might be going the wrong route for your family dairy goats.

The problem with large breeders, and large dairies, is often in disease testing. Their operations tend to be bottom line profit, and they ONLY test for diseases that are required by law, such as TB, and Brucellosis. Unthrifty, poor producing goats who may have other human-communicable diseases, are sold or culled.

Other diseases that you want to have tests for, or will wish to test for before you feed the milk to your children are CL and Johne's disease. CL is not completely zoonotic yet, but there have been cases of it transmitting to humans through milk. Johne's disease is Crohn's disease in humans, and the bacteria can be transferred through milk. Both of these diseases are incurable in both animals and humans.

CAE has not yet jumped species into humans yet, but it is a horrible, incurable disease that will break your heart if your goats have it. It causes goats to die before their time in a pretty painful manner, which is likely not something that you will wish to subject yourself or your children to... Dairy goats become pets, their personalities are much like a dog, and they are very loving and affectionate. No one likes having to put a pet down!

So, before you buy a goat, or at least right after you bring goats home and before you have had a chance to get super attached to them, I would heartily suggest that they are tested for CAE, CL, and Johne's Disease. Testing for these three diseases is only $23 per goat through WADDLs, or you may have a Veterinary University lab near you that can also do the tests.

No matter what breed you want to have, starting out with disease-free, healthy animals will go a LONG way towards making you happy and worry free as well.

On the different breeds, I would like to make some observations. LOTS of people get into NDs because they are little, and they think a tiny goat means the goat will be much easier to handle. This is not always the case. A little goat can also mean the goat is slippery as a snake when you are trying to catch her, is an accomplished escape artist that can get through holes in your fencing that you didn't know existed, and due to being very short, many people have difficulty milking them by hand because it is hard to get a bucket or bowl under them. (If you have a milking machine, even a Henry Milker, that makes it much easier.)

The full sized breeds, while indeed larger, tend to be more laid back and easier to handle. From my personal experience, I may be able to carry an ND to the milking stand to milk, trim hooves, ect., and since she is small, I can man-handle her and MAKE her stay still to get milked, or her feet trimmed, etc., but with the full-sized goats, I don't have to do all of that. I can just lead them to the stand, and they happily do anything I want them to do, without much effort on my part. Not saying ALL ND's are little monsters, there are some folks on here who have perfectly behaved, well-mannered ND's. Nor am I saying that ALL full-sized goats are angels, I have had a couple that I heartily wished in the freezer rather than in my milk room. Just that you need to be aware of the tendencies.

Mini breeds, which are Nigerian Dwarfs crossed with a standard-sized goat, often offer the best of both worlds. They are mid-sized, so that they are not difficult to man-handle if you need to do so, but they are tall enough to get a bucket under them and generally have larger, easier to hand-milk teats, than an ND. I have two Minis (both Mini-Nubians, although the rest of my herd are standard-sized Alpines). One is a *weeensy* bit short on the legs to be truly comfortable to milk, if she was an inch longer in the leg, she'd be perfect. The other is an inch longer in the leg and IS perfect.

Both of them have an easy handful of teat to grab for milking, and NOW are absolute darlings on the milkstand. (Not so when they were first fresheners, as they were dam-raised and half wild when I got them. I had to get practiced in Goat Bondage to milk them at first. Now, though, as 3rd fresheners, they are darlings.)

If what you are hoping for is that your goats will get most of their roughage and hay needs met by graze and browse, therefore keeping you from having to buy hay except in winter, I will have to warn you that two NDs are going to strip a 30'x80' pen to bare dirt just as well as 2 standard-sized goats....it will just take the NDs a little bit longer to do so. You are going to have to by hay for your goats if that is all the area they will have to browse and graze, unless that pen is EXCEPTIONALLY well fertilized, planted, and with PERFECT soil.

If you had already planned to buy hay for them anyway, and the 30'x80' pen is meant more as an exercise yard, then it is plenty of room to dry-lot two of any breed of goat.

If you pen is a temporary affair, until you can fence in a 1/3 or 1/2 acre for your goats to graze and browse, then you still are not limited by breed to your two does.

I will warn you though, that goats are HIGHLY addictive. And next year, one of your kids is going to fall in LURVE with a baby, that is going to be terribly cute, and you will think, "Oh, sooooo cute! Just one more won't hurt!" Then, the next thing you know, your barn and yard are full of goats and your husband is threatening to divorce you because he is tired of you keeping the babies in the bedroom. (But honey, it's WINTER! And they are only 2 days old! They have to be kept WARM!)

Backfourty,MI. · #11 12/28/12, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2happymamas

What are good questions to ask? The breeder run a dairy goat farm and I located him through the NDGA website.

Like andabigmac said, ask to see milk records. Check the dam & sire's dam's udder, pictures in milk if that's all they have.
Ask to milk them before you give them a deposit.
Also ask to see test results from the current year on the diseases like Johnnes & CAE.

If you put your state or location in your profile there may be some great breeders here with Nigerians that have the standards & quality your looking for. Or they may know someone to refer you too.

I also agree with Caliann. Buying from a breeder with a smaller herd you'll get a lot better one on one experience, most likely their animals will be more friendly & most likely you'll be happier with your purchase in the end.
Just make sure you shop around, do your homework & don't be in a rush. You'll find the right goats for you & your family.

motdaugrnds · #12 12/29/12, 09:18 AM

As usual you are getting great information from posters in this forum.

What I would do in your situation is go to the person you are planning on purchasing your goats from and "watch" him/her milk several goats, especially the dams of the goats you are looking mostly at. After this milking you will find out what is required to milk such a small goat, the quantity/quality of milk production for "one" milking & an example of the milking process relative to cleanliness/feeding/milk stand for that "size" of doe.

As for the "type" of goat, you might not enjoy having to take your goats to another for each breeding time...nor the cost and health issues involved in doing so. If I were in your shoes, I would get one doe and a buck only I would make sure the doe I came home with was one who could provide enough milk for an entire year. (Yes there are does who do this. I have several that give so much milk I can "condense" every other milking for freezing/canning.) Also, there are some does who, once they start producing milk, they simply don't stop whether they are bred again or not. I had a doe who would do this and continued milking for over 2 yrs...until she "accidentally" got bred again. (I raise full-sized Nubians.)

As for your neighbors, there are some breeds of goats who are NOT QUIET! My Nubians are very vocal whenever they think I am too slow to satisfy them. Of course, I spoil my goats and all my "breeders" are PETS! This does make a difference!

I know nothing about ND; yet have heard good about their ability to produce milk for small families. I have heard they are escape artists and so short that milking is more difficult than with the larger breeds. However, they are indeed CUTE!

Frosted Mini's · #13 12/29/12, 11:12 AM

Good point, Nigerians are usually LOUD too. The mini alpines I've had so far have been relatively quiet, except a couple who inherited the Nigerian voice.