Tell me about artificial insemination

[earthkitty]

I have three young does who will be bred next summer. I have a ram with my ewes and have NO desire to keep a buck around (whoever said sheep are dumb have never met my ram, different story for a different day).

My young vet has offered to AI my does for free, because he wants the experience. All I have to do is aquire the semen. I've looked online, but there are SO many options!

Can any of you point me in the right direction on this, or have any advice? What kind of equipment do I need to have if my vet is the one performing the AI? This is a whole new world to me, and I admit it is a bit intimidating.

I have a Nubian, a LaMancha and a Nigerian Dwarf. I'd like to aquire some really high quality semen to improve their lines. I'm in SE Kansas if any of you might be close and have semen available from your lines. I'd like a brown spotted sire for the Nubian, a black and white for the LaMancha, and a blue eyed for the ND.

Thanks so much. I'll post a different thread with all the photos of my new adorable babies.

[Frosted Mini's]

Ask your vet. He/she may have all the equipment and the tank...at the very least maybe the tank. A goat is much different from a cow, so make sure your vet knows what they are doing.

A basic AI kit is a light (a pen light with a clip can be used), several speculums (tubes that go in the doe's vagina), the "gun", a thaw jar-which can be just any thermos, thermometer, tweezers, a clothes pin (not completely necessary, but helpful with straw retrieval), sheaths for the gun, sterile lube-NON spermicidal, big long q-tips if you want-I don't use them, but some do.

A thorough understanding of the does heat cycle is needed for AI to be successful. Timing is critical for getting does to settle. You also need to have a buck, as backup if they don't settle, but also for heat detection purposes.

Good luck! AI can be really fun and rewarding...and it is a skill you can learn yourself, so don't be shy about it.

[earthkitty]

Wait...I have to have a buck anyway???? That is not good news.

[Frosted Mini's]

Well...you may get by if you don't have a buck, but not all goats will settle to the AI and you have to know your does very well if you don't have a buck...do you know when they are in heat? When I first got goats, I did not have a buck, and I couldn't really tell when they were in heat, but I might be able to now that I have had them for awhile. I guess it just really depends.

You can synchronize them to be in heat at just the right time and ready to AI at just hte right time, but I think that natural heats settle better AI.

[mygoat]

AI is not 100%, so it is probably still a good idea to have a live cover buck as backup. A *good* technician averages about 60% conception. I did 75% (3 of 4) this year, but I chalk that up to good luck. And the fact that I hedged my bets by placing 2 straws of semen in each girl, lol.

Find out if your vet has a nitrogen tank and equipment. The equipment is GOAT SPECIFIC. I bought a complete, super fancy AI kit from bio-genics for 180.00. Has everything but semen and the nitrogen tank. I got my nitrogen tank for 150.00 off craigslist, but that is nearly unheard of for a good one. Mine works well for my use, but for long term storage I would probably look into improving the vaccuum on it, as I filled it in Oct and it's already down to less than 10cm of nitrogen... should last 3-4 months ideally. Usually tanks cost HUNDREDS of dollars.

I HIGHLY suggest using CIDRs/PG600 to cycle your does, so you can know exactly when to place semen. It's more of a guessing game if you just wait for natural heats. But you can do it either way. CAn be hard/impossible to spot heats without a live buck, however.

Research AI for goats. It is NOT the same as in cows. You place semen trans-cervically in goats, NOT in the uterine body like in cows. You normally want to go in 3 rings of the cervix and place semen. There's a few other differences, such as that you do NOT palpate the cervix rectally (physically impossible) and instead use a speculum and AI light to visualize the cervix.

[earthkitty]

Thank you both so much! If AI doesn't work, with my vets help, then I'll have to keep three bucks of different breeds together in the back pasture. I would assume the answer is yes, but the question is would multiple bucks fight if kept together? My ram willl beat the tar out of any other male sheep, even a wether.

[mygoat]

They will butt heads. This is normal behavior. Once they live together for a while they'll calm down. Rarely will they injure each other.

You *could* just get a nigerian buck as your backup, and breed it to everything. Make registerable F1 miniatures.

[Frosted Mini's]

I know a few people, who I trust, that say they have an 80-90% success rate. I think it has to do with differences in natural heat vs. synchronized heats. All those people do AI on natural heats.

This is my first year AI'ing. I used a CIDR on one that didn't settle, then tried on another on natural heat that didn't settle-I did not re-try on either of these does the second time, maybe they would have taken for me. The next three in a row on natural heats have settled...and I just did one that I don't know the results of yet.

But for your situation with the vet doing it for you, I'm guessing that it would be better to schedule using CIDRs, because vets are busy and may not be able to AI the goat at the drop of a hat.

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by Frosted Mini's

I know a few people, who I trust, that say they have an 80-90% success rate. I think it has to do with differences in natural heat vs. synchronized heats. All those people do AI on natural heats.

This is my first year AI'ing. I used a CIDR on one that didn't settle, then tried on another on natural heat that didn't settle-I did not re-try on either of these does the second time, maybe they would have taken for me. The next three in a row on natural heats have settled...and I just did one that I don't know the results of yet.

But for your situation with the vet doing it for you, I'm guessing that it would be better to schedule using CIDRs, because vets are busy and may not be able to AI the goat at the drop of a hat.

Technicians who do it on COWS for a LIVING don't get that high of an AI rate. I'm skeptical. That would be AWESOME, but you can understand my skepticism.

I have heard that AI sucess rate is better in 'natural' heats.

I used CIDRS mainly because I am not home 5 of 7 days of the week. You could probably guarantee help from the vet if you used CIDRs... Otherwise any random 3 days for your does' heats, I doubt he will have an open workload for the process at the drop of his hat. It takes a good bit of time per doe to do. Took me all morning for 4 does when I did mine.

Also to note, I use PG600l, which guarantees ovulation.

[Frosted Mini's]

I have used the PG600 with mine.

At the ADGA Convention, Karen Lewis gave that figure for some goat AI people. She said that possibly the reason is that people are generally more intimately involved with their goats. We know each doe as an individual for the most part. Cow dairies are often large, or they hire a technician that comes to breed cows-so maybe they are having more timing issues than goat people. ALSO, she said that goat semen, even though it is more fragile (I think) than cow semen, it is better quality. Cows...bulls rather, produce lower quality semen than bucks.

A LOT I think also depends on the breed, I have heard from at least two people, that saanens are the easiest and Nubians the hardest. One lady said, you walk a saanen by a tank and she's pregnant. :P I've only tried 2 so far, and they both took, one being a dry yearling that I used 20-something year old semen on...they seem pretty fertile to me.

[earthkitty]

Originally Posted by mygoat

You *could* just get a nigerian buck as your backup, and breed it to everything. Make registerable F1 miniatures.

Hmmm, interesting. I was unaware of this "f1" thing. But wouldn't most people rather have full size Nubians and LaManchas for milking? Or do most people like mini? I mean, I got these girls for my own personal milk production, not to be in fancy breeding/sales, however I do want to be able to sell the offspring.

Also, it was my understanding that a buck must be kept seperate from the does, other than breeding of course, or it affects the quality of the milk. And that they reek. True?

I prefer with all of my animals to have breeding pairs and let nature do it's thing. If I could have just one buck for all three, that would be super cool. On the other hand, the future does would be smaller, thus producing less milk, and with my sheep and my goats, producing heavy milkers is my ultimate goal.

Thank you, everyone, for all the information. LOTS to think about. Maybe I'll try the AI this year (assuming the vet has all the equipment), and if I'm not happy with the results turn them out with a buck.

[CaliannG]

Miniatures, those crosses between standards and Nigerians, are very popular nowadays in the Suburban and Urban areas for back-yard milkers. They tend to produce more, and be easier to milk, than ND's, yet still be small enough to handle easily and keep in a small area. With a good registry for them, there are even shows available, as well as the option to breed to pureblood miniatures. So yes, you could register your Standard/ND crosses as F1 experimental miniatures and get a good price for them.

That bucks will taint the milk is an old wive's tale, that came about due to the fact that milk from a doe infected with mastitis or staph tastes salty and "bucky". The only way having a buck in with the does will affect the flavor of the milk is if there is some sort of contact *with the milk*. If you pet your fall-in-rut stinky boy, and then milk without washing your hands, and some milk squirts on your hands and drips into the milk bucket, yes, there can be contamination that will make the milk taste horrible. However, if you wash the udder, and wash your hands before milking (standard sanitary milking procedures), then no, a buck hanging out with the does will not make the milk taste bad.

During rut, which in most breeds falls directly in lat summer and early autumn, yes, a buck will reek to high heaven. No way around that. He is "perfuming" himself to smell sexy for the girls, and unfortunately, does have TERRIBLE taste in cologne. The more being around him makes your eyes water, the sexier the girls will think he is. And what is worse, he'll still want to be petted, loved on, and affectionate even when he is caked in the stuff.

My suggestion is keeping the buck area downwind from the house.

That being said, bucks will figure out their pecking order and get along well with one another. I have kept as many as four or five bucks in an area and never had them do bodily harm to each other.

[earthkitty]

Caliann, thank you for your post. Very good to know.

Maybe I will just get a little ND buck. Sure would make things easier.