Strongyles.....HELP

glasshousegoats · #1 12/06/12, 07:46 AM

Took fecal samples from two of our does to the vet and they came back as strongyles. It's day 3 of the safeguard/ivomec treatment and only 1 has gotten better. The one who isn't getting better has been getting resorb since hers are complete liquid. Pardon my French, but what the hell?! Is there a possibility that she doesn't have strongyles? I just don't get it. I don't want to lose her. Somebody please help!

andabigmac · #2 12/06/12, 08:08 AM

How much are you dosing them at? http://fiascofarm.com/goats/wormers.htm. Safeguard has resistance problems in some areas now.

glasshousegoats · #3 12/06/12, 08:10 AM

Safeguard they are getting 9cc each. She is about 50lbs

Cannon_Farms · #4 12/06/12, 08:16 AM

safeguard is used at 10x the horse dose, so is pyrentel, ivermecting is 4xs and quest is 2xs

andabigmac · #5 12/06/12, 08:24 AM

So your main concern besides getting rid of the worm load is diarrhea? Have you tried probios, yogurt or kefir? Also there have been a lot of threads lately about goats with diarrhea. Alice just posted about feeding canned pumpkin. It works well for stomach upset. They could possibly have an issue like that along with the worms. Are you drenching her with fluids to make sure she stays hydrated?

glasshousegoats · #6 12/06/12, 08:57 AM

Yes the main concern is the diarrhea. Mainly because we don't want them getting dehydrated. We have tried drenching them but if they aren't eating its too much fluid and nothing solid. She was drinking from a bottle for the past few days and this morning was the first time she refused it.

I have never heard of dosing goats at 10x the horse dosage for safeguard. It's 3x the normal dosage for goats for 3 days. And the others are responding to it. The reason we switched to safeguard is because they were no longer reacting to the valbazen and cydectin.

She did get 12cc of pepto bismol not too long ago so well see how that goes.

andabigmac · #7 12/06/12, 09:10 AM

Try the pumpkin and probiotics too. She's still on the bottle? How old is she? Did they test for cocci? You can treat for that too just to be on the safe side.

glasshousegoats · #8 12/06/12, 09:14 AM

we've been giving her probios. She is 8 months old. She is no longer on a bottle but she will drink from one if you give it to her, its cute. I don't think they treated for cocci, but we were treating them for cocci with sulmet tabs and they did respond at first and then they got wet again. We honestly have no idea what it could be. Our regular vet is in CA so the backup helped us, not sure he knows much about goats though.

glasshousegoats · #9 12/06/12, 10:08 AM

Her eyes are very pale and sunken in, probably a 4.5. She still wont drink so Im going to have to drench her with the resorb. Can anybody help?

andabigmac · #10 12/06/12, 10:37 AM

I've never had one get this bad. I've heard that you can give warm water enemas to keep them hydrated. I would keep drenching her with the electrolytes. Keep pushing fluids like she was a little kid with the flu. It may be that she has a bad bug and needs to work it out of her system. Have you tried giving her green branches to see if that will whet her appetite?

glasshousegoats · #11 12/06/12, 10:42 AM

All of our leaves here are dried up but I just went in and drenched her with the resorb, and gave her some dried leaves and fresh grass. Its just bizarre that shes going back and forth. On monday she was acting better and sticking her head through the fence like she normally does. And then last night she just looked like crap. It seems like all of the goats are getting sick and there aren't enough indoor stalls to house/isolate them from the rest of the new kids. She is in a stall now but just looks depressed, I'm hesitant to let her out because she gets picked on by the older does.

We have a 11 day old who is coughing and not nursing or going to the bathroom, if you look at my recent post maybe you could help me with that too before I run to the store to see if I need anything else.

Blue Run Farm · #12 12/06/12, 11:32 AM

When I had a cocci problem, mine did the same thing with the Sulmet. It was really not effective for getting rid of the cocci. Would help for a short time, but then stopped helping altogether. I suggest trying a different coccidia med. I can't remember the name of a better one right now, am at work and having brain fart. Someone? Maybe Albon? Or is there something even better that I am totally not able to pull into my head right now? Gah, hate getting old!

Blue Run Farm · #13 12/06/12, 11:33 AM

This year we did the horse meds as our cocci prevention and had no problems. Baycox. But I don't know if it is safe for treating one that is already so depressed, plus it takes a while to mail order it.

Good luck, I hope she is much better soon!

dbarjacres · #14 12/06/12, 11:34 AM

Get some lactated ringers and rehydrate under the skin. It will avoid more going thru the bowels right now. You can run an IV or just give sub q and make several tented up areas wherever you can.

I'd also give a bit of banamine as that slows the gut down. Keep pushing probiotics, buy the best paste you can find near you.

Find anything simple and dry she will eat.

glasshousegoats · #15 12/06/12, 02:35 PM

Vet gave us antidiarreah pills and a calf electrolyte mix. She's really not looking good at all. Gave her pumpkin, wouldn't eat it. Yogurt, nothing. She keeps rubbing her nose around hay and nibbling on it but I can't tell if she's actually eating it. Still giving her probios and pepto. She's just standing and hanging her head.

Alice In TX/MO · #16 12/06/12, 05:42 PM

The cocci meds that have been tried are not the best options. You also have to get the pumpkin in the goat, not offer it. I used an old probios tube. You might want to use Scour Chek for e coli.

Jyllie63 · #17 12/06/12, 05:57 PM

I hope you can get it figured out...poor girl...and poor you! I know how worried you must be!

CaliannG · #18 12/06/12, 06:56 PM

If she is refusing to drink, drench her. You can drench yogurt and Pepto Bismol as well. The only anti-Diarrhea you CANNOT give her is Immodium.

Safe-Guard is fenbendazole. There is no area of the country in which strongyles have NOT developed a resistance to fenbendazole due to over use and under-dosing. None. The only parasite it still works well on are tapeworms. If you insist on using a fenbendazole-based wormer, dose at 10x recommended dosage by weight to have any effect.

Ivomectin and Eprinectin are current wormers of choice in areas where parasites have developed resistance to Cydectin.

If you have Red Cell, or can get it, I would also dose her with it. It sounds like her load was extra heavy. The fact that a fecal came back positive for anything in winter (which is not a normal time for parasites to lay eggs) says that the load is massive.Give supportive care as if for exceptional anemia, as they are draining her.

Baycox (Tortrizuril) is safe for coccidia at any stage, but will take 3-4 days to arrive if you order it immediately. Corid and Albon should be available at your vet.

Have you started B-Complex injections yet? With that high of a load, her B vitamins are seriously depleted. If she is dealing with coccidiosis (which can happen in any young goat with a heavy worm load, and therefore depressed immune system), then she is severely depleted in thiamine.

I hope this helps. Good luck with her.

Backfourty,MI. · #19 12/06/12, 07:56 PM

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=9125.0

Here is the Link I use for coccidosis prevention but it also has the treatment doses too. Scroll all the way to the bottom & it says that Sulumet doesn't work for cocci so the tabs you gave probably just slowed them down a bit & it could actually be coccidosis which has taken a big hold on her.

Lots of good advice here & I'm sure a bit over whelming plus I'm always frustrated & flustered when 1 of my goats is Off or ill but with the advice given already & reading what you've done so far I would start her on the treatment dose of Di-Methox 40% injectable given orally from the link above.

Also a little Banamine would help calm her gut if you have some like dbarjacres suggested, get a little pumpkin down her, some Kaopectate too- a couple tablespoonfuls & any way you can get some liquids in her. If you have gatorade try that in some water, a lot of goats like it that way & if she'll drink more that way then great.
Also the Probios to keep her rumen going & give her what ever hay you have that her favorite, leaves, grass, fresh green twigs, even try a cracker just to get her eating something.

When I use Safeguard on my kids(that's the only time I use it generally for tapes when their young) I use 5 Times the reccommended dosage.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for your little doe & so glad some of them are responding & bouncing back so quickly.
Huggs to you too, I know your probably a mess just worrying!

glasshousegoats · #20 12/07/12, 09:25 AM

Thank you for all of the advice! She is still hanging on. She had more of a response to the bottle with electrolyte water this morning however she didn't drink much. The vet said to keep doing what were doing just not to force too much. She is stil completely wet, I mean just water coming out and it smells awful which makes me think its cocci. The vet said the workload wasn't huge which I find hard to believe and nothing came back for cocci so I ding even know anymore. I don't want to treat her with all of these meds and lose her from an OD. She got her anti diarrhea pill and 1cc of banamine just now so well see how she responds. I did give her 12cc of pumpkin in a drench and will give more in an hour. I'm running to tsc now is there anything else I should get?