Replacement Cost - What do I charge?

harvestmoonfarm · #1 11/30/12, 11:31 AM

As you know, I lost 2 of my pregnant Nubian does (each carrying one fetus - hubby checked postmortem) last week to a neighbor's dogs. I'm trying to type up a bill to send to the dogs' owners, and need to know what to charge for the two does lost. The 2.5-year-old was a grade doe, as was her daughter, the 9-month-old that was killed. The older doe was a beautiful girl and gave, on average, about a gallon and a half a day when in milk. Her daughter had gorgeous conformation and beautiful markings, and I was so looking forward to working with her as a FF

I know that I don't bill for what was paid for the girls (the younger one was born here a month after I purchased her mother), but instead charge what it would cost to "replace" them with comparable does. What does a grade, bred Nubian doe normally sell for (on average)?

Any and all advice appreciated

Alice In TX/MO · #2 11/30/12, 11:50 AM

This is just a guess, but the minimum I would ask is $250. Probably more is reasonable.

where I want to · #3 11/30/12, 11:55 AM

It really depends on what your State laws say. But I would also bill for the lost production, the cost of your time in dealing with it, medical supplies to save the injured girl, even the darn bullets used to kill the dogs. Itemized and with pictures of the destruction if I had them.

harvestmoonfarm · #4 11/30/12, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where I want to

It really depends on what your State laws say. But I would also bill for the lost production, the cost of your time in dealing with it, medical supplies to save the injured girl, even the darn bullets used to kill the dogs. Itemized and with pictures of the destruction if I had them.

I had an itemized bill including the does lost, their kids lost, milk production lost, all medical supplies, vet bill, pain and suffering, etc. The bill came to $6200+. At this point I'm wondering if it's not just better to charge for the goats and the vet, and let everything else go.

The state laws say that, once efforts against the owner are exhausted, the county will pay up to $400 per animal lost.

wintrrwolf · #5 11/30/12, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harvestmoonfarm

I had an itemized bill including the does lost, their kids lost, milk production lost, all medical supplies, vet bill, pain and suffering, etc. The bill came to $6200+. At this point I'm wondering if it's not just better to charge for the goats and the vet, and let everything else go.

The state laws say that, once efforts against the owner are exhausted, the county will pay up to $400 per animal lost.

There you go.
When we had a fire what the insurance paid for as far as contents was the replacement cost. Which ment that I had to go to stores and list the cost to replace.
So to get a good milking doe to replace the one that you lost would be 300-400
to get another FF would be 200-300.

Perhaps if you show what the actual bill is and just ask for the cost to replace the 2 Doe's at 400 each they maybe reasonable.

kasilofhome · #6 11/30/12, 12:25 PM

The babies have a value--even if they were to be eaten. It is a lost to you. Yes the milk. You lost the milk for what 10months times what 6 years time quanity times 8dollars a gallon here minus the cost of 6 years of feed you will not shell out for the years you are claiming for the milk loss.

KrisD · #7 11/30/12, 01:18 PM

You need to check further into state laws. Some only allow replacement value as in what you paid or would pay for the exact same animal, not production value as that isn't something guaranteed. As in I had a mini horse that was stolen from us and when taken to court the court wouldn't make them return the horse instead they ordered them to pay what I paid for her as a weanling. This was a 3 yr old that I was showing and was winning. Check thoroughly!

mekasmom · #8 11/30/12, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harvestmoonfarm

I had an itemized bill including the does lost, their kids lost, milk production lost, all medical supplies, vet bill, pain and suffering, etc. The bill came to $6200+. At this point I'm wondering if it's not just better to charge for the goats and the vet, and let everything else go.

The state laws say that, once efforts against the owner are exhausted, the county will pay up to $400 per animal lost.

You can't get pain and suffering for a lost animal. You weren't in pain, and they don't give pain and suffering for animals.
Personally, I would stick to the $400 per animal. And whatever you do, I would be very honest and try to mitigate damages reasonably just because you want the blessings of God on you.
I know you lost more than $400 each when you count other things. But I would use that as my marker for reasonable damages.

Otter · #9 11/30/12, 05:45 PM

Submit an itemized bill, as was said before. Then print out some sales pages off websites. Ozark Jewels has a link to hers. Good milk does sell for $350 and up and you can go with a stack of pages that prove it.

briargrove · #10 11/30/12, 06:07 PM

So sorry for your loss. I don't know where you are but the following link is a listing on CL for some Nubians who have been bred. It says starting at $400. Might want to print it out for a reference price point.

Milking Goats

Jennifer

harvestmoonfarm · #11 11/30/12, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekasmom

You can't get pain and suffering for a lost animal. You weren't in pain, and they don't give pain and suffering for animals.
Personally, I would stick to the $400 per animal. And whatever you do, I would be very honest and try to mitigate damages reasonably just because you want the blessings of God on you.
I know you lost more than $400 each when you count other things. But I would use that as my marker for reasonable damages.

You can get pain and suffering depending on the state. There's a woman in MN that did that very thing when she lost 5 goats, and another 3 were injured by her neighbor's two dogs 3 years ago. I'm not trying to "stick it" to anyone - I just want to rebuild my herd, which is why I was asking for advice.

mekasmom · #12 11/30/12, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harvestmoonfarm

I'm not trying to "stick it" to anyone - I just want to rebuild my herd, which is why I was asking for advice.

I understand that. And I know you lost more than $400 per goat when you count everything. I'm just telling you what I would do. I always try to do things that I feel will please God and allow His blessings to overcome me. I would err on the side of mitigating damages heavily.

Shygal · #13 11/30/12, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekasmom

And whatever you do, I would be very honest and try to mitigate damages reasonably just because you want the blessings of God on you.

God has nothing to do with this.

Buckhuntr · #14 11/30/12, 08:29 PM

You should be entitled for at least replacement cost for the does, replacement cost for the unborn kids, reimbursement for costs of vet bills and first aid supplies that came out of your pocket because of the neighbor not controlling his dogs! You deserve to be made whole for your financial loss. And yes, I'd add in the cost of the bullets. You should not have to suffer monetarily because of your neighbor's irresponsibility. Imho.

mrs.H · #15 11/30/12, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckhuntr

You should be entitled for at least replacement cost for the does, replacement cost for the unborn kids, reimbursement for costs of vet bills and first aid supplies that came out of your pocket because of the neighbor not controlling his dogs! You deserve to be made whole for your financial loss. And yes, I'd add in the cost of the bullets. You should not have to suffer monetarily because of your neighbor's irresponsibility. Imho.

I totally agree with this. And I totally agree with Mekasmom! You should get all your paperwork together and present it to the judge with a meek and quiet spirit. He or she will know the laws and act accordingly.

Proverbs 16:18- Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 18:12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honor is humility.

There isn't anything that God has nothing to do with. Even if it is Him taking His hand off of a person. That is always a bad place. It always ends with bitter lonely tears. Ask me how I know. (I wont tell you, but you can ask.)

aart · #16 12/01/12, 05:37 AM

Not sure if you're going thru the courts or are just approaching the dog owner.

If it's a court case, I would itemize everything as separate line items, then the judge can easily pick and choose the ones that are covered in your jurisdiction.
Ask for all the costs, they can only say no, but if you don't ask up front it's a lost opportunity.

If you're only dealing directly with the dog owner it might be better to just get replacement costs for 2 pregnant does. Neighbor Karma.

Hang in there and Good Luck!

ani's ark · #17 12/01/12, 08:20 PM

Wow Trish, I'm so sorry for your loss. Having read the comments posted in response to the article - in all their ignorant glory - I agree you are probably best off just going for the replacement of the 2 pregnant does, plus the vet bill, but definitely submit a copy of your itemised bill for the court to read also. You were in the right, you know that, and it doesnt make it any easier - as you said you grieved for her dogs as well as your goats. There is no getting through to some people, so after making her legally accountable, you will have to cut your losses and be the bigger person I guess (which will not be a stretch judging by what you are up against). Turning the other cheek will be hard work, but better for your own sake - please dont let this horrid event eat you up inside, bitterness is such a bad feeling to carry around - even if your opponent is so awful they make your bile rise.

When we moved from town out to the country with our pet bull terriers we had no illusions as to their natural instincts and the response of other farmers (large or small) to their livestock being hassled or hurt. Shooting a dog to defend your stock is not something any farmer enjoys, most are fond of their own dogs. A couple of times I have caught one of mine making for the road when let loose for supervised toilet and run around time, they try and sneak off. I am responsible for my dogs. IF a genuine accident happens and our dogs ran free somehow we would take full responsibility, whether the dogs were alive or dead after the fact. I wish you the best for the court case, hope your life can get back to normal again soon.

harvestmoonfarm · #18 12/01/12, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ani's ark

please dont let this horrid event eat you up inside.

Thank you. I just want the nightmares to go away - a restful, peaceful, full night's sleep would be a welcome thing at this point.