Now, I have an emergency...(Local folks, I need you!)

JBarGFarmKeeper · #1 11/24/12, 10:37 PM

This morning we had a 2yo standard doe present with the runs. We gave C&D antitoxin, Neomysin and Pepto and have given her hot molasses water several times today.

When DD16 went out to milk she took her temp and it was VERY low. She was still standing but she is weak. We are giving warmed Lactated Ringers sub-Q right now but DD says this is the only bag we have! Ugh!! And TOMORROW IS SUNDAY!!! Why? We have hot water bottles up against her, she is covered and she is in our milking room.

So, is there anyone in my area that has LR that could spare a bag until I can replace it?!

southerngurl · #2 11/24/12, 11:17 PM

I don't think I do, but you can do enemas. I've done it before. I used a drenching gun, just barely inserted the end of the nozzle, used warm water of course and did a bit at a time to allow absorption. Although, if she's been drinking the molasses wage today, she may not need the fluids.

I would strongly consider bringing this doe in the house. If not, hot water bottle on the rumen, a goat coat and a thick blanket on her. It's cold tonight.

Are there proper rumen sounds? Cud transfers are good.

How low is temp? Below a certain point it's just too late. You may get the temp up andyhe. She will turn and crash. Be prepared to euthanize if things turn very painful for her suddenly. Hope that's not the case and things are looking up tomorrow.

southerngurl · #3 11/24/12, 11:19 PM

Sorry autocorrect.

The Tin Mom · #4 11/24/12, 11:20 PM

I think I have a bag, but am way way too far away...

I will Pm my number, just in case....

southerngurl · #5 11/24/12, 11:28 PM

And just in case there is something I can help with, my phone is 870 404 9934. Text would be preferred so I can wake up

JBarGFarmKeeper · #6 11/25/12, 12:34 AM

She's gone...I will remember the enema with the drench gun thing. We did end up bringing her in the house. DD found another partial bag. When the sun went down so did her temp. She was fine on the milk stand last night. What a DRAG!!

I have and am going to vaccinate my dry does with Endovac-Bovi this season. I have heard from other goat owners that it can protect against this crazy diarreah (can't spell tonight) stuff.

Any thoughts or experience?

Sherry in Iowa · #7 11/25/12, 06:09 AM

Hey Gena, just waking up to see what all has happened. I am so sorry that you lost her. What was the cause of her diarrhea?

Again, it's so shocking to have them go so quick. I didn't take Sara's temp..knew we were in trouble when I found her and I opened her mouth. It was cold. I don't know about anyone else..but I think fighting a fever might be easier than fighting a low temp.

Alice In TX/MO · #8 11/25/12, 06:47 AM

This is happening other places, too. I'm on some discussion lists, and there's one farm that lost seven of forty. Suspected: clostridia in a virulent form and/or salmonella or GMO corn.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites...aflatoxin.aspx

southerngurl · #9 11/25/12, 07:06 AM

Sorry you lost her

The Tin Mom · #10 11/25/12, 07:09 AM

Oh, Gena,

How awful! It is hard when they go so unexpectedly!

(((hugs)))

Backfourty,MI. · #11 11/25/12, 07:10 AM

I am so sorry you lost your doe Gena. Farm life sucks sometimes!

Dreamgoat Annie · #12 11/25/12, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBarGFarmKeeper

This morning we had a 2yo standard doe present with the runs. We gave C&D antitoxin, Neomysin and Pepto and have given her hot molasses water several times today.

When DD16 went out to milk she took her temp and it was VERY low. She was still standing but she is weak. We are giving warmed Lactated Ringers sub-Q right now but DD says this is the only bag we have! Ugh!! And TOMORROW IS SUNDAY!!! Why? We have hot water bottles up against her, she is covered and she is in our milking room.

So, is there anyone in my area that has LR that could spare a bag until I can replace it?!

I wish I'd checked late yesterday. We have 2 bags we'd have brought to you. So sorry you lost her. :o(

Sue

JBarGFarmKeeper · #13 11/25/12, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

This is happening other places, too. I'm on some discussion lists, and there's one farm that lost seven of forty. Suspected: clostridia in a virulent form and/or salmonella or GMO corn.

How Aflatoxins Infect Corn | Pet Food

So, Alice, what do you think of the Endovac vaccine? The girls get ADM Dairy goat power, oats and BOSS. They have prairie grass, rye and alfalfa hays. I would tend to think it is feed oriented because it's the milk does that get sick.

ENDOVAC-Dairy | PBS Animal Health

I have the Endovac-Bovi, this link is to the newer version. In the last two years we have lost 3 milk does (less than 24 hours from fine to dead) and had 3 or 4 others that have gotten ill and recovered. Only one of the standards, in milk, was able to regain her production and go on (she has milked for another year without freshening!). The others just dried off. We have only had 2 of the NDs to deal with this, one was dead in 12 hours and the other recovered (milk and all). This was over the course of 2 years and, yes, I have a LOT of does. It seems to happen in the fall of the year (September to December).

southerngurl · #14 11/25/12, 10:51 AM

Do they get pasture? If so, how much?

JBarGFarmKeeper · #15 11/25/12, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southerngurl

Do they get pasture? If so, how much?

Yes, they have several acres but the drought has done weird things here. I planted some food plots in another adjoining pasture and they love it in there but there is jimpson weed in there that has to be eradicated before I can put them back. The drought has magnified some of the noxious weeds. However, there is none in their normal pasture and that's the only place she has been.

Suzyq2u · #16 11/25/12, 12:00 PM

Sorry about your doe

yarrow · #17 11/25/12, 12:22 PM

Sorry Gena.. I just now got online and saw this (and your messages)... Kids got home from thanksgiving in Tn. last night and I never got back online after evening chores....

So sorry you lost her... back 4 or 5 years ago.. (this exact time of year).. Sunny did almost the exact same thing.. we milked that morning.. she was fine.. for some reason I went back out around noon.. Sunny was leaning up against the barn wall.. just looking a little off.. touched her, she was burning up.. took her temp.. it was 107.4.. While standing there trying to decide what was going on.. Sunny suddenly burped, began to shake and have explosive diarrhea .. not kidding, it was shooting 4 feet out behind her.. She was having a hard time staying on her feet... I realized she was no longer hot.. took her temp again, it was 100.. it just kept falling, it dropped to 98 (with us still standing there.. my brain was still trying to process her symptoms).. Decided it was entro.. gave her BIG does of antitoxin, some nuflor (Both ORAL and Sub-q)..also began giving Kaopectate .. we have an enclosed room in our barn.. moved her in there, started warm ringers.. got a electric heater from the house (oil radiator type).. turned a sweatshirt into a goat coat... It was touch and go all day, giving CD antitoxin every couple hours.. (we continued with the Antitoxin every two hours for several days, then we got down to every 4 hours.. weaned her down to twice a day .. if I missed a dose, the runs would start again that whole first week.. we used a lot of antitoxin & nuflor).. it was so hard trying to keep her clean.. by that first evening the scours were slowing down.. we moved Shelly, her friend in with her, for more warmth and to keep Sunny calm.. We were up every two hours all night long.. I was still sure we would loose her the next day... sometime that second day, the scours stopped .. her temp was up to just over 100.. She nibbled a little hay (never been so happy to see a goat eat).. she was so weak.. she never left the barn room for almost a week.. finally felt well enough the second week to stand out in the sunshine for a couple hours.. (we had to keep the coat on her, and her out of the wind or her body temp would fall again)... she lost a ton of weight (even tho she was eating, I'm guessing her guts weren't working right at that point).. Her skin even felt weird, thin, but tough...about a month after they began to live in the heated room, (she was strong enough to spend pretty days outside with the herd).. I finally took her coat off.. It turned out to be too much wind that day... I almost lost her to Hypothermia, on a sunny afternoon!!! she ended up actually in the house for a day/night..we had to keep rubbing her legs ect to keep her blood moving and her temp up.. I was NEVER so happy to see spring arrive.. once the days & nights got warm, she really began to recover, by summer.. all her weight was back, her coat shined back up.. you would never guess how sick she was, for how long)

I was sure she would NEVER fully heal.. never kid again (her milk totally dried up the day she got so sick, milked her that morning, never milked her again.. it was just GONE!!!).. But.. here we are years later. she is a big, fat, shinny, sassy gal, due to kid in March (she has had 3 springs worth of babies, since the Entro)... what caused it??? I have no clue.. no one else got sick.. she was fine at breakfast (ate her ration on the milk stand and was trying to die within 4 hours)..

we've only had entro 3 times ... Sunny made it, the other two were kids (different years).. both died.. (I honestly think Sunny made it, because we just happened to be standing there as it started.. we got to see the temp spike and plummet.. the key with her was warmth support (it was like the entro made it impossible for her body to regulate it's tempature.. even now, years later.. she gets cold worse then the other does)..

again, so sorry you lost her (and YES, if the need ever arises again.. I do have ringers and I'd be happy to share)

susie, mo ozarks

Alice In TX/MO · #18 11/25/12, 12:30 PM

Susie's experience is the best. I know nothing about the vaccines other than there are more varieties of clostridium than are included in them.

JBarGFarmKeeper · #19 11/25/12, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yarrow

Sorry Gena.. I just now got online and saw this (and your messages)... Kids got home from thanksgiving in Tn. last night and I never got back online after evening chores....

So sorry you lost her... back 4 or 5 years ago.. (this exact time of year).. Sunny did almost the exact same thing.. we milked that morning.. she was fine.. for some reason I went back out around noon.. Sunny was leaning up against the barn wall.. just looking a little off.. touched her, she was burning up.. took her temp.. it was 107.4.. While standing there trying to decide what was going on.. Sunny suddenly burped, began to shake and have explosive diarrhea .. not kidding, it was shooting 4 feet out behind her.. She was having a hard time staying on her feet... I realized she was no longer hot.. took her temp again, it was 100.. it just kept falling, it dropped to 98 (with us still standing there.. my brain was still trying to process her symptoms).. Decided it was entro.. gave her BIG does of antitoxin, some nuflor (Both ORAL and Sub-q)..also began giving Kaopectate .. we have an enclosed room in our barn.. moved her in there, started warm ringers.. got a electric heater from the house (oil radiator type).. turned a sweatshirt into a goat coat... It was touch and go all day, giving CD antitoxin every couple hours.. (we continued with the Antitoxin every two hours for several days, then we got down to every 4 hours.. weaned her down to twice a day .. if I missed a dose, the runs would start again that whole first week.. we used a lot of antitoxin & nuflor).. it was so hard trying to keep her clean.. by that first evening the scours were slowing down.. we moved Shelly, her friend in with her, for more warmth and to keep Sunny calm.. We were up every two hours all night long.. I was still sure we would loose her the next day... sometime that second day, the scours stopped .. her temp was up to just over 100.. She nibbled a little hay (never been so happy to see a goat eat).. she was so weak.. she never left the barn room for almost a week.. finally felt well enough the second week to stand out in the sunshine for a couple hours.. (we had to keep the coat on her, and her out of the wind or her body temp would fall again)... she lost a ton of weight (even tho she was eating, I'm guessing her guts weren't working right at that point).. Her skin even felt weird, thin, but tough...about a month after they began to live in the heated room, (she was strong enough to spend pretty days outside with the herd).. I finally took her coat off.. It turned out to be too much wind that day... I almost lost her to Hypothermia, on a sunny afternoon!!! she ended up actually in the house for a day/night..we had to keep rubbing her legs ect to keep her blood moving and her temp up.. I was NEVER so happy to see spring arrive.. once the days & nights got warm, she really began to recover, by summer.. all her weight was back, her coat shined back up.. you would never guess how sick she was, for how long)

I was sure she would NEVER fully heal.. never kid again (her milk totally dried up the day she got so sick, milked her that morning, never milked her again.. it was just GONE!!!).. But.. here we are years later. she is a big, fat, shinny, sassy gal, due to kid in March (she has had 3 springs worth of babies, since the Entro)... what caused it??? I have no clue.. no one else got sick.. she was fine at breakfast (ate her ration on the milk stand and was trying to die within 4 hours)..

we've only had entro 3 times ... Sunny made it, the other two were kids (different years).. both died.. (I honestly think Sunny made it, because we just happened to be standing there as it started.. we got to see the temp spike and plummet.. the key with her was warmth support (it was like the entro made it impossible for her body to regulate it's tempature.. even now, years later.. she gets cold worse then the other does)..

again, so sorry you lost her (and YES, if the need ever arises again.. I do have ringers and I'd be happy to share)

susie, mo ozarks

Yes, this was it. Katie was outside and saw the explosive, watery, projectile runs! The fight was on. The temp was the issue. Amazing. I will be going to Sally's on Monday and restocking on Ringers. I had antitoxin and will be ordering more. I will be vaccinating too. It has to be done in the dry period prepartum. Man, I HATE this!!

southerngurl · #20 11/25/12, 01:34 PM

Sure makes you wonder what caused it! Scary.

Only thing I can think of in fall is acorns (seems late for that now) and the fact that spring and fall grass both tend to be high in sugar. In the fall, when you have sunny days and cold nights, the sugar builds in the grass in the daytime, then doesn't get used at night (because of lack of growth due to the temperature) then comes sun again the next day and the sugar will ratchet up in weather like that. Which is why horses will founder in the fall. Also, drought stress can increase sugar in grass as well.

May I ask what kind of grain/feed and how much they get?