Am I being selfish

mahnah · #1 11/15/12, 03:25 PM

My boy is 11 and a half and due to me not knowing much hasnt had the best care. He got pretty gimpy over a year ago. His front legs are bowed out and not the strongest. He gimps around eats, drinks and poops well. He nibbles the grass after we have cut it, comes to the gate to call me if I am late with his dinner. He sometimes falls right on his face when he goes to step and leg just isnt really there. I always say he doesnt seem to be in pain so let him be. My heart feels like a sledgehammer whacked it at the thought of putting him down.

Am I being selfish? Should I let him go? Would me giving him some sort of supplement help with his legs or is it too long to correct. I am planning on building a couple of barns and getting more goats in the spring but feel like I failed him terribly.

Ford Zoo · #2 11/15/12, 04:37 PM

I know I recently read somewhere a post about bowed legs and supplementing some mineral was suggested, but I can't remember which one. Hopefully someone will give ya some ideas here.

chamoisee · #3 11/15/12, 04:39 PM

I hate to ask this: has he been tested for CAE? Of course different lines of goats age differently; 11 is ancient for some lines and still going strong for others.

I've heard other folks here talk about giving their old does banamine for the pain and that they really bounce back nicely once they are not in chronic pain anymore. Or- you could try providing willow shoots and prunings to eat as these have natural salicylates (aspirin).

mahnah · #4 11/15/12, 04:44 PM

He hasnt been tested for anything. I have had him since he was 5 months old. He doesnt seem to be in pain or notice that he cant walk well. I feel pain when I watch him. He just moves around looking awful. He eats like a champ drinks well poops perfectly and is peeing without issue. Do I need a vet to come to do the testing?

**mygoat** · #5 11/15/12, 06:13 PM

Are his knees swollen? (CAE)

Do his legs feel hot? (tendon contraction/laminitis)

Is he eating a rich diet? (founder)

Does he have access to copper and iodine? (deficiencies)

How are his hooves?

Pictures would really help here, too. As for the CAE test, you don't necessarily need a vet out. You can draw blood yourself and send it in to get tested. BioTracking does CAE tests for 4.00, you'll also have to pay for shipping to get it there. Your vet can often supply you with a RED TOP blood tube (or serum seperator tube, which is grey/red marbled). I use a 3ml syringe with a 20ga x 1" needle for drawing blood.

mahnah · #6 11/16/12, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

Are his knees swollen? (CAE) doesnt seem swollen

Do his legs feel hot? (tendon contraction/laminitis) no heat in the legs at all

Is he eating a rich diet? (founder) he eats a local goat grain mix, hay, carrots, apples with a mineral salt on it daily

Does he have access to copper and iodine? (deficiencies) just the salt that I put on his food

How are his hooves? not really sure on this one I really am not sure what I am checking for.

Pictures would really help here, too. As for the CAE test, you don't necessarily need a vet out. You can draw blood yourself and send it in to get tested. BioTracking does CAE tests for 4.00, you'll also have to pay for shipping to get it there. Your vet can often supply you with a RED TOP blood tube (or serum seperator tube, which is grey/red marbled). I use a 3ml syringe with a 20ga x 1" needle for drawing blood.

I havent been able to figure out the picture thing, I tried but it doesnt seem to work Will try to get a good picture of him standing and at least get a link up.

mekasmom · #7 11/16/12, 05:35 AM

He is 11 and a half YEARS old? If so, you have taken wonderful care of him, and I wouldn't worry abut gimpy legs. Goats only live about 9-10 years.

mahnah · #8 11/16/12, 05:40 AM

Thanks mekasmom, I am more concerned that I am hanging on to him and should be letting him go. I cant imagine life without him and it makes me hurt when I watch him move but he seems to be ok and comes up for his scratches or to tell me I am late with his food. I am so torn.

Also I want to get more goats in the spring, planning my barns now for us to build and this time I want to do things right to take good care of them. I have never had a vet for Gizzie, he has never seemed sick til this gimpy thing and I thought it was old age, arthitis etc. Found this site and realized I wasnt the best mom

CaliannG · #9 11/16/12, 08:45 AM

We can only do the best we can with what we KNOW. You have been the best goat mom you knew how to be for 11 years; and that is better than a lot of people out there who just don't care. Therefore, you are not allowed to beat yourself up just because you have just now found new information. It's not like the forum members here came knocking at your door saying, "Hi! We're the Goat Witnesses! May we share with you the Good News about the best goat management?"

Honestly, people don't go looking for answers unless there are problems. And if Gizzie has been healthy all of these years, your management can't be THAT bad....and why would you have gone looking for a fix for something that wasn't broken?

Goats are kind of like large dogs. Some lines have extended life expectancy of 15-18 years. Some lines, it is only 8-10 years. A lot depends upon the bloodlines.

If you were not planning on getting more goats, I would tell you not to bother with testing him. He's an old gentlemen and if you weren't going to expand your herd, test results would not change how you would manage him.

Since you are planning to get new goats, he *could* be carrying diseases that are contagious to them, with no guarantees that they would not get sick immediately from them.

There are other ways around it, of course. If you plan to keep him completely separate from any new goats you get, it is not an issue. And frankly, at his age, he may not wish to deal with a whole herd of young whippersnappers disturbing his peace and routine.

I agree with chamoisee in providing a painkiller for him. Talk to your vet about it, as your vet may give you the banamine without having to see him, considering his age. (Yeah, I have a nearly 12 year old goat that seems arthritic and gimpy. Can I just have some banamine for him? To make him a bit more comfortable in his old age?) The ban itself is not expensive, and comes in both injectable and paste form.

As long as he still seems happy, you are not being selfish. He'll let you know when it is his time.

andabigmac · #10 11/16/12, 09:07 AM

I'm surprised I didn't kill my first goats. You sound like a great goat mom. He's a lucky boy to have you.

He's probably getting some arthritis in his old bones. If he's fat put him on a diet to take off some of the strain, and make sure his feet are kept trimmed up. A small sprinkle of ginger daily helps with arthritis. So does cod liver oil. Can you take him for a short walk every day or so to strengthen his legs and work out some of the ache?

I would love to see pictures of your boy.

mahnah · #11 11/16/12, 02:37 PM

thank you for the kind words they really help.

I am not planning on keeping the new goats in his area, going to put up barns and fence in different areas for them. I dont want him to be bothered. He has been alone with his chicken girlfriends for so long not sure he would do well with young goatie friends at this point. MAYBE after he moves on I might get a buck and use his area. Should I still test him or will his area recuperate.

I will try to post some pics of him standing or video his walking stumbling tomorrow.

Not sure if this will work but this is him lying in his area.
http://flickr.com/gp/83101285@N04/uN7T6q

chamoisee · #12 11/16/12, 02:37 PM

Also: does he have a soft place to lay down at night, either manure pack, dirt, etc? Concrete and other very hard floors will cause pain, especially for older animals and particularly in colder weather.

mahnah · #13 11/16/12, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamoisee

Also: does he have a soft place to lay down at night, either manure pack, dirt, etc? Concrete and other very hard floors will cause pain, especially for older animals and particularly in colder weather.

He sleeps on bed of wood shaving covered in hay on the wood floor The base is about 4-6 inches

andabigmac · #14 11/16/12, 03:32 PM

He is so cool looking! Those horns are awesome!

He needs a cookie.

CaliannG · #15 11/16/12, 03:37 PM

When he passes on, clean out any and all old shavings, straw, etc., down to bare wood and dirt. Completely disinfect any wooden areas, AND dirt areas with a strong bleach solution. If he is on pasture, let that area rest for 6 months. If he is in a dry-lot pen, bleach the entire area, including the dirt, which should be soaked with bleach water down 2 ".

The bleached pen/stall/barn can be used by a new animal in one week. Pasture should be allowed to rest for 6 months to a year before putting a new animal on it.

That will keep any disease microbes he might have from infecting a new animal.

When you get your new goats, be sure to buy clean, TESTED stock. The breeder should be happy to show you the *paperwork* from their last test, which should be no more than a year old and cover their entire herd. The tests you want to see are CAE (ELISA test), CL (Elisa test), and Johne's Disease (ELISA test). They should all show negative for the entire herd.

Starting out with clean, disease-free, tested animals is actually far more important than starting out with registered animals. Registered animals will not do you any good whatsoever if they get sick and/or die before you can even milk them or get meat babies from them.

**mygoat** · #16 11/16/12, 05:09 PM

Actually, the CL test is an SHI test, not an ELISA. *nitpick*

Some people don't CL test. A knowledgeable, reputable person who has an abscess free herd (or has had an abscess but cultured contents to rule out CL - there are many other reasons for abscesses than CL ) is just as good (probably better) than a herd that has disease tested once or twice for CL but are less knowledgeable and haven't built a reputation, IMO.

Zilli · #17 11/16/12, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekasmom

He is 11 and a half YEARS old? If so, you have taken wonderful care of him, and I wouldn't worry abut gimpy legs. Goats only live about 9-10 years.

Actually, I have a Saanen doe who will be 15 next spring and some others (pygmies, and a pygmy/dairy cross) that are all around 12 and 13.

mahnah · #18 11/17/12, 12:14 PM

I feel like a schmuck the pictures look worse then when he is moving around.
http://flickr.com/gp/83101285@N04/099B1W
http://flickr.com/gp/83101285@N04/51s45z

Until here never knew I needed to do anything with the hoof and to be honest not sure what to do now.
http://flickr.com/gp/83101285@N04/89mD82
http://flickr.com/gp/83101285@N04/aj7jF1

mahnah · #19 11/17/12, 12:15 PM

I feel like a schmuck the pictures look worse then when he is moving around.
http://flickr.com/gp/83101285@N04/099B1W
http://flickr.com/gp/83101285@N04/51s45z

Until here never knew I needed to do anything with the hoof and to be honest not sure what to do now.
http://flickr.com/gp/83101285@N04/89mD82
http://flickr.com/gp/83101285@N04/aj7jF1

ani's ark · #20 11/17/12, 04:05 PM

He's such a handsome shaggy boy, and I just love his impressive horns. I'm no expert on goat health, but the folks here will give you sound advice. He seems pretty crooked in the legs alright, but as you said photos can catch the worst moments! And he is very old. Best of luck getting him comfy.