What about Wethers?

[aart]

Newbie at this forum, never had goats or been around them much but am thinking of having them in the future so am reading up. Great group y'all have here, I've really learned alot!

I've done some searching here but not found all the answers I seek regarding wethers. Would appreciate affirmation or correction about the following assumptions I've made.

Buck kids are wethered most easily by banding young, 6-8 weeks, or later by cutting for several reasons?
When said boy goat is going to be butchered for food for better tasting meat.
When he is not going to be used for breeding - avoiding buckiness.

Wethers are sometimes kept long term because they are often of sweet temperament and have low feed needs?
As companions to intact bucks, pregnant does, general pack members or pets.


TIA for any corrections or additions!

[Rockytopsis]

You can also train the wether to pull a cart, and there are actuall tools like plows that you can use with a goat.

Nancy

[mpete]

If its a meat goat, yes they wether early, but for a working goat such as packing or cart, or pet, later is better. Most will wether around 3 month to over a year to allow urinary tract growth. Does can work just as well as a wether. I have taken my milking does camping/packing several times...and I have also eaten buck.

Btw: welcome!

[CaliannG]

Welcome to the forum!

Buck kids are wethered most easily by banding young, 6-8 weeks, or later by cutting for several reasons?

Banding is bloodless. Without an open wound, it is much more difficult for bacteria to infect the process. I generally do not band until 8+ weeks, as I want their testes to be large enough that the banding does the job the fastest, with the least amount of discomfort. When they are older, if they are going to be castrated, they are generally cut. This is for the very practical reason that older bucks are developed, and the bands won't fit around the testes.

When said boy goat is going to be butchered for food for better tasting meat.

This is actually not very true. It is more that some people castrate when the goat is going to be butchered because they *believe* it creates better tasting meat. I have not noticed any difference between a cleanly butchered and handled buck and a cleanly butchered and handled wether. BUT, there are other reasons to castrate bucks that will be used for meat, and those reasons are purely economical. Bucks put their caloric intake into reproductive maturity and sexual characteristics during the first two years. In other words, they are growing out the things that will make them attractive to does and help father the next generation (which is more than just their gonads). Wethers put their caloric intake into skeletal structure and muscle mass. So it is more economical to feed a wether for butcher than it is to feed a buck for butcher, especially if you plan to butcher AFTER breeding season. Buck lose a lot of weight and muscle during rut.

When he is not going to be used for breeding - avoiding buckiness.

Again, that depends upon WHEN you wether them and the individual animal. When they are wethered late, they will often keep their bucky characteristics. Some folks use late-castrated wethers as "teasers" and "heat-detectors", beecause the actions of the wether will tell them when the does are ready to be bred, without risking an unwanted breeding.

Wethers are sometimes kept long term because they are often of sweet temperament and have low feed needs?

True. Wethers will grow fat and happy on nothing more than good quality hay and/or pasture, loose minerals, and baking soda. Bucks need more, and during rut, bucks NEED grain.

As companions to intact bucks, pregnant does, general pack members or pets.

There are many, many uses for a wether. Pack animals, cart animals, companions, etc., etc. Some folks use them as quarantine companions, for an animal they are bringing into their herd, but needs to be separated until disease testing comes back. That way, the new animal isn't alone in quarantine, but if the tests come back positive for disease, the breeder hasn't lost much by culling both animals.

I firmly believe every goat person should have a couple of wethers, or animals that fill the purpose of a wether. (I have a hermaphrodite that I use as a wether.) They pay for their minimal feed with their usefulness.

[aart]

Thanks for the great and detailed info!

[finnsheep]

Concerning castration:

Banding is the simplest method. However, it is the most high-risk for tetanus infection. Tetanus is an anaerobic bacteria, meaning that it thrives in an oxygen free environment. Dead tissue is a perfect example. Additionally, when the scrotum sloughs off, it still leaves an open wound that in my experience, takes at least as long to heal as the surgical incision, and may still bleed. It is just as susceptible to infection and flystrike as the surgical incision would be.

Research has shown that banding is acutely painful (just as all methods of castration are), and that symptoms of pain are often more prolonged compared to cutting.

Another problem with bands is that it is not difficult for the testicles to slip as the band is being placed, creating a "cryptorchid" or "monorchid". Retained testicles cause would-be wethers to be disqualified at shows and can be buck-like in their behaviors. Generally these are infertile as the body heat will usually kill the sperm, but this is not always the case, and sometimes does that should not have been bred, are.

Cutting by an experienced person is a very swift procedure, and done properly, there is little to no bleeding and infections are very rare. The open wound drains, reducing inflammation and thus discomfort. These generally heal up very quickly, and lambs and kids are typically engaged in typical behaviors soon after the procedure. Obviously, as both testicles are positively drawn out, there is no risk of them being retained.

I castrate all my ram lambs and buckling with this method, and never once have I had a problem. I have also adopted many bottle babies that had been banded, and many of them were done improperly. I've seen infection, flystrike, and severe edema at the site of bands that were placed properly.

Can it result in infections, flystrike, or even tetanus? Yes. But generally, these animals are inspected far more frequently so such problems will be caught right away. (Tetanus is less likely but I can't emphasize enough that tetanus is a risk in every procedure and must be protected against- via colostrum, toxoid, or antitoxin, as the stage of life dictates and the vet recommends.)

Now, many (probably most) goat owners band and properly done, it is a convenient, effective method. For me, the cons outweigh the benefits. That's not to say that it should not be done. I have simply seen many cases of it being done improperly.

It is really much better to have two people for banding bucklings (or lambs). How else will the animal be controlled, the testicles put in the scrotum, and the band placed properly over them? Banding in a hurry never pays. It merely costs more later to have the retained testicle/s removed surgically-by a vet for sure. And it is far more stressful on them than taking an extra minute to place the band on right, or surgically castrate.

There is yet another castration option available, but I really don't personally like it. The Burdizzo (emasculatome) crushes the spermatic cords so the testicles shrivel up and die while the scrotum remains alive. The problem with this is that it is very difficult to get right and it is probably the most painful method of all. There is severe bruising and edema even when done properly. It really only works with young kids and the frequency of "skipping" is very likely. Additionally, a well-made Burdizzo is very expensive and requires careful maintainance.

[aart]

Thanks finnsheep!

[Dreamgoat Annie]

We love wethers. At least half of my herd (and sheep flock) is composed of wethers.

Some of my goat wethers are trained to pack, though I'm getting too old to do that much any more. I also have two huge cart goats who outgrew their harness, so I've picked out two more to start training soon.

Sheep wethers (and I suspect fiber goat wethers, though I've never had any) produce the best fleece as they aren't concerned about breeding ewes nor do they get a wool break by lambing, so all they eat goes into fleece instead of fuss.

Granted, we don't eat our animals, so they are technically pets. But I truly love my friendly, easygoing wethers.

Oh BTW, we use Lidocaine and Tetantus antitoxin when banding kids and lambs at about 4-5 months of age and then we give them Banamine once a day for several days, followed with Probios. Their testicles are withered in a week or so and have no sensation in them, so we trim them off with leather shears right below the band, roll off the band, spray the remaining small wound and that's it.

Sue

[Otter]

I was worried about all that Finnsheep said when the time came for me to do my first wethering.

He was an 11 week old bottle baby goat and seeing as how bands were cheap and most of us don't want to go slicing away without a mentor that first time, I thought I'd try it. I was ready to snip them off and drive an hour and a half to someone who'd walk me through cutting the first time if he showed any discomfort at all.

Because it's true, being cut with a wickedly sharp blade, like a scalpel, really doesn't hurt. Personal experience talking.

I gave him some grain, lifted a hind leg, made sure both testicles were down, made sure his teeny teats were out of the way and put the band on. He looked around at me when I first lifted his hoof up, and then decided grain was more important.
He finished, walked off and it never bothered him one tiny bit.
His sack fell off in about 10-12 days, and left no open wound.

I think it was partly that he was older and partly that he was easy to handle. Did you ever put a rubber band around your finger as a kid? I did. You get it good and tight and it doesn't hurt at all until you take it off.
Man did my mom used to yell at me for that!!!

[2horses]

I have a small herd of seven wethers, using them for weed control mostly. They were all castrated at about five - six months of age, and their testes are definitely GONE! However, they have recently been getting erections, riding each other, and making that whut whut sound. Why is this happening, and how long will it last? And why now, after nearly a year of no maleness whatsoever?

[dbarjacres]

Totally agree with Finnsheep as We knife cut all our kids and calves. I banded a kid last year for somone who requested that method and within 5 minutes we cut the band off and cut him instead. He was in intense pain.

[Backfourty,MI.]

The wethers are my favorites. Always so lovable, no hormones or testosterone to get them wound up once a month. They don't need a lot of food just good hay & browse & lots of Love.

I have always banded & usually between 6-8 weeks depending on the size of the scrotum. Last year was the 1st time I've ever had a problem with the band, the vet had to cut it off & the little guy got antibiotics for a week then was fine. The sack was already dead when the vet cut the band but he said because of humidity, etc. moisture got under the band & caused an infection.
I'm leaning more towards cutting but we'll see this year & next. Will definately have the vet show me the 1st few times anyways.

[aart]

Thanks for all the anecdotes, always good to hear real stories of real experiences.
Sounds like one thing for sure, after weathering the wethering, they are great animals.