Fern update. :(

Shayanna · #1 11/14/12, 08:07 AM

Spoke to a vet yesterday. He also was a jerk. Didn't want to tell me his prices and all that, but I finally weasled enough information out of him. Went to the pharmacy and got some ketostix. The dh is going to try to test today. If its positive, we are going to get some dexamethasone from the vet for 40 dollars (consult fee + med). She is declining rapidly. She isn't trying anything, except she is being super loud all night long, and my husband just texted me and said she is now blind in her left eye and acting like her neck is stiff. She nibbles a little bit if he holds it right up under her nose, but isn't really eating.

Do you think inducing will save her? If you think we are going to lose her anyway, should we try to keep her holding on until a safe date to give the kids a chance? Or should we induce asap. Either way we are inducing, but when?

Cannon_Farms · #2 11/14/12, 08:28 AM

That kinda sounds like deer worm. You have probably already lost the kids and with her decline survival of her and them doesnt sound good. I must have missed the starter thread but how far along is she

Shayanna · #3 11/14/12, 08:46 AM

It is ketosis. we tested. day 150 is the 26th. I'm going to have dh go feel for kicks now. If there isn't hope for fern, we want to save the kids, but first and foremost we want to save fern. But if she is going blind now... We just want to save somebody. We lost her buck (the kids father) earlier in the year to pneumonia, and I don't know if I can deal with the heartache of losing her too.

LoneStrChic23 · #4 11/14/12, 09:17 AM

Get sugar in that doe ASAP if you want a fighting chance to save her!!

Go to TSC, grab injectable Dextrose, it's $5. Get some large syringes. Being sterile, draw up 2 30cc doses, warm to body temp (I did this by wrapping in damp, microwaved towels) Inject slowly, subQ, over the ribs.. 30cc in each side. Get your vet to give you injectable CMPK & use it exactly the same as the Dextrose. Get the Dex from your vet too.....

I had a nightmare go with a doe and I didn't start soon enough..... We tried inducing to save her, but ended up with an emergency c-section and a dead doe & kids

Jumped at first sign of trouble on another doe, and I quickly had her fixed up using the advise above.

You can also drench that injectable dextrose too, it taste yummy. Keep her warm, don't let her be cold. You can soak some hay pellets to make a gruel and drench that too... Probiotics wouldn't hurt either. You don't want her rumen to shut down... She needs calories, she needs to keep her rumen going......

These metabolic issues progress RAPIDLY, you can NOT wait to treat! Hypocalcemia is often on the tails of ketosis..

LoneStrChic23 · #5 11/14/12, 09:22 AM

Aww man... Just read she's already blind.... Hon, I'm sorry, but this is very bad

Can you ask your vet what he would charge for a c-section? I don't think she'll make through induction.... If I had gone c-section first instead of inducing, I may have saved the kids. My vet did the c-section in the barn floor with no hope of saving the dam, so it was cheaper than a sterile operating room set up.

So sorry, I hope I'm wrong, I hope you can save something from this awful mess

Shayanna · #6 11/14/12, 09:22 AM

We have been giving her everything we can think of. We are also going to try giving her some propylene glycol too as the vet told us to. The thing that breaks my heart is, she has been fighting all week and she is giving up. We have been giving her every kind of carb we can think of, following vet advice. Tums, CMPK, Vitamin B Complex, molasses, lots of grain, honey, cereals, fruit. She was doing great at first but she is giving up quick.

Shayanna · #7 11/14/12, 09:24 AM

I can't even think about affording a c-section. they charge over a 100 dollars just for coming out. I'm barely scraping by to get the dex.

LoneStrChic23 · #8 11/14/12, 09:29 AM

PG is pretty harsh.... It burns, just taste it. I know lots of folks use it, but I prefer the injectable Dextrose as you can give it orally, and SubQ and it doesn't taste bad or have that throat burning factor like PG....

Does she still have rumen sounds?

Shayanna · #9 11/14/12, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

Does she still have rumen sounds?

I think so. Its hard to listen cause she is being so loud vocally. Good to know about dextrose. Hubby will get some.

LoneStrChic23 · #10 11/14/12, 09:43 AM

Poor baby

I'm so sorry. Will she eat any hay, or perhaps cut some road side browse, even dry leaves? Just some sort of roughage. I'd also make sure you give her baking soda, even if you have to make baking soda balls & force them in her mouth..... All those sugars and such being drenched, you don't wanna cause acidosis....

Do you have CMPK injectable or just the oral?

Shayanna · #11 11/14/12, 09:46 AM

We got her to take a whole bottle of CMPK orally, cause TSC doesn't sell the injectable here, and since then we have been giving her 3 tums 3-4 times a day.

Cannon_Farms · #12 11/14/12, 09:47 AM

Can you put the doe down and do it yourself? emotionally I can understand it being too much but its not as complicated if the doe is dead but you have to be quick.put her down on a tarp and carefully but quickly start cutting into the layers. make sure to have warming baskets and all on hand.
I cant think as much time and money as I have spent on my goats that a kid would be worth this much suffering to the doe and if shes that far gone you may need to think of whats fair to her.

KrisD · #13 11/14/12, 09:55 AM

Please follow Crystal's advice she's been there. The Dex is only about $5. Please buy some and give it to her. Don't wait.

JBarGFarmKeeper · #14 11/14/12, 10:08 AM

Blind, stiff, neck, back legs not working, that sounds like Goat polio, or Listeriosis. Start her on LARGE doses of PenG. 6cc at least twice a day for 10 days, and THIAMINE (actual THIAMINE B1) 500 mg once a day for probably weeks. We pulled a yearling out of this last year. Not sugar coating, this is going to be tough. DO THE PEN-G NOW!

The lack of eating is causing an even greater thiamine deficiency. Folks, Thiamine is one of the those "always have" things. Any goat that goes off feed for any reason needs to have thiamine until back to normal. Here is a place that you can get it WITHOUT a vet script. http://www.horseprerace.com/index.ph...products_id=14

You can also get B12 without a script there. The cost is about $10 more a bottle than I pay here but you don't need a vet to get it, so that has to be worth something. It's "technically" from Canada, like the Baycox, that's why you can get it.

Shayanna · #15 11/14/12, 10:22 AM

She is already getting thiamine and PCN. has been all week. Can somebody give me step by step on c-section just in case? How do I know if labor is going wrong. Do I have to shoot her first?

Cannon_Farms · #16 11/14/12, 10:32 AM

had anyone in your house ever gutted anything? the best thing is to study the anatomy charts you can find online. Yes, you will need to put her down first, with no pain relief it wouldnt be very humane to cut her open while still alive.
start on the side the rumen is not on, I cut the middle between the rib and leg but Im not worried about going in and getting dirty either. You can roll her on her back and cut down the middle. Your not going to make the first go around pretty and its going to be emotionally very hard thats why you need to have everything on hand. The babies wont have the benefit of being squeezed out to get the fluid out of their lungs so you will need a bulb sucker, lots of warm towels to stimulate. You have to really rub on those guys to get them going.
I suggest you cover her head as theres a lot of guilt seeing their faces and it makes it easier to do what needs to be done.

Best of luck, if your family doesnt have hunters maybe ask some friends, anyone that has gutted anything has a better scene of anatomy than one some one who has never done it..
OH, last tip, vicks vapor rub if your stomach is queezy with smells put it up inside your nose

JBarGFarmKeeper · #17 11/14/12, 10:42 AM

Sling the babies, immediately, if you wait it may not work. Grab the hind legs and swing hard in a circle either beside you our turn in circles (but I fell doing this one). It causes enough centrifrical force to clear the fluid BEFORE they breathe.

The Tin Mom · #18 11/14/12, 10:50 AM

(((hugs)))

**mygoat** · #19 11/14/12, 11:19 AM

How close to term is she? Usually kids do well when born 5 days before the duedate... up to 7 days early with extreme care. I wouldn't attempt before 7 days before her duedate and hope to save kids.

Usually dexamethasone is given to the doe about 24 hrs pre-labor to develop lungs of kids. Sounds like you're already doing that.

Yes, you'd have to shoot her first, then immediately cut into her right side and get those kids out asap. Doesn't need to be pretty, just needs to be fast. Scalpels are easy to find/purchase from TSC or most local farm stores. A razorblade knife would work as well probably. Have helping hands to hold the doe still - she won't be able to feel it but there will be reflexive kicking from the instant destruction of her brain. Muscle spasms.

I wish I was closer - googled the distance and you're several hours north of me.

KrisD · #20 11/14/12, 11:37 AM

Please make sure to have someone there to help. There will be a lot going on all at once. I make a list of things I have to do so when chaos insues I don't get confused. Get her as close to 150 days as possible so the kids have the best chance. If you have a stethoscope list to her and see if you can hear kid sounds. I can with mine.