i need the run down on Injections, Why or why not. tell me

littlequail · #1 11/02/12, 10:52 PM

I need your help, this December *in Florida* we are having kids for the second time here on the farm...Up until now i have never done any kind of Injections to any of my goats However this season i want to disbud the kids. and i have been told if i want to i should give them a *tetanus anti toxin* injection before doing so. also i have read many people also give all the goats something called a *CDT & VACCINATIOn* now i have seen this at the local TSC stores and if it keeps my goats from getting sick (even though they never have) i would like to take steps to make them even safer....BUT..come to find out with ANY injection i give it can cause Anaphylactic Shock? and they can die within a moment.....WHAT?....so now i need to have epinephrine from a vet? Ok....am i on the right track...what do you guys do with your goats...Have you ever had anything bad or good happen? do tell!!! thank you!

Donna1982 · #2 11/02/12, 11:04 PM

The only issue we have ever had giving goats shots was the CD&T vaccine gave them a bump that last for the longest time. I've never (knock on wood) had a goat have a reaction or issue besides what I just said. We give all of ours cd&t, bose, and tetanus.

Ford Zoo · #3 11/03/12, 06:41 AM

Toxoid is the vaccine that helps the body build antibodies over time to certain diseases. Kids cannot process vaccines and start making antibodies until they are about 12 weeks old as their immune system is too young to work with the vaccine.

Anti toxin provides immediate, short term protection (upto several weeks) for a disease, and works with all ages, including kids.

Disbudding opens the skin and puts the kid at risk for getting tetanus,so make sure you use the anti-toxin for disbudding, but since this is short term protection, you should follow up at the appropriate age and start vaccinating to create long term protection.

I did have a doeling go down in her hind legs and start acting funny within 20 minutes of her first vaccine this spring. Reactions to vaccines, or any medications, can take that long to surface. I had no epi at the time, but I gave her Vit B (I don't know why-that is not going to stop an allergic reaction). The whole thing was weird and probably coincidental as she was back to normal within minutes. But I make sure to have epi on hand now and she got a nice dose of benadryl before her booster. As rare as reactions are, they do happen, better safe than sorry.

It's a good idea to have epi, tetanus anti toxin and C&D antitoxin in goat supplies in case you ever have a what if.

Dreamgoat Annie · #4 11/03/12, 07:51 AM

Get the epinephrine. If you don't give a lot of shots and don't want to buy a whole bottle, get a syringe dose from your vet, put it in a closed container in your 'fridge and carry it EVERY time you give a shot. Barring that, take the bottle of epi with you every time.

We've had two reactions in geez, over 50 years of large animal keeping. The first was my gelding, Imbir', when he was a yearling. Didn't have epi but after a really scary five minutes he came around and at age 12 is still going strong. After that, I bought my first bottle of epi.

The second time happened when we went out to give a sick goat a shot of vitamin B. Forgot the epi and rather than coming back for it, thought, "Nah, it won't hurt just once." Wrong. I had to race back to the house (and I am not built for racing) to get the epi while she convulsed. The shot brought her right around but she died a few days later. I'm sure the wear and tear on her body contributed. I still kick myself for that and will never, ever give another shot without epi on the ready.

Just my opinion.

Sue

Backfourty,MI. · #5 11/03/12, 08:10 AM

The cost of the CD & T vaccine is so minimal & worth it to make sure my goats are covered. I have never had a reaction with any of the goats here before & don't have an epinephrine on hand. I always forget to ask for it when seeing the vet. I have to remember to get some because I should have it for a "Just in case" time I may need it.

All your goats will need a CD & T shot & then 3-4 weeks later they will need a booster. Then they only get 1 booster a year.

If you give all your adult does' their 1st shot & then their booster before kidding then it carries over into their kids for a time after they are born. I try to do my does' CD & T shots about a month before kidding.

With yours all due in December I would give their first shot with in the next week or so & then wait 3 weeks for their booster. Then next year just a booster for the year.

littlequail · #6 11/03/12, 09:10 AM

thanks for all the replies! they are due Around 26 of December, i have seen the CD & T vaccine at the local tsc it comes in a Orange bottle with a photo of goats on it (simple enough) i also have Tetanus Antitoxin on hand, its a blue box with a Mountain on it. *never used* As i look up the epinephrine it turns out i can only get it from a vet Now there is No livestock vet around here I was going to try to see if my dog/cat vet would be willing to be able to order it for me? how much is a bottle? am very nervous about giving shots just because am trying to make them healthier not kill them!...but if i want to disbud the kids it seems like the safest way to go.....so from what i understand i give the CD&T a month before kidding to my girls, then 3-4 weeks in (about the week or less they are due to kid) Give again to them the CD&T.....Then once the babies are born the babies are good to go or should they also be giving a tetanus anti toxin? right before disbudding? and no matter what i do I should Always have the epinephrine on hand....i don't know how i would take it if i lost one of my 3 girls because of a shot i gave... if anything...could i hold off on giving shots to my girls, and then just test out the babies on *Tetanus Antitoxin* right before kidding, see how it goes....Or just give One of my girls a *CD & T shot*

Ford Zoo · #7 11/03/12, 11:35 AM

Tetanus is always in the environment and lives in dirt. I feel it is just safer for everthing to have the CD&T vaccines yearly. If a goat has even just a scratch, any wound that opens the skin, they can be opened to being exposed to tetanus. I would vaccinate your does as Backforty said so that passive immunity is passed on to the kids. This is not a garauntee but is far better than having kids with no immunity at all.

Any vet should be able to sell you epi, they all should have it on hand. I don't think it is very expensive.

Goat Servant · #8 11/03/12, 12:14 PM

We do CDT here. Have never had reaction but I DO have a dose of epinephrene in fridge. I had to convince the vet to sell me some.
"Oh Ive never seen anaphylatic shock" Reminded her that if it did happen goat would die.

littlequail · #9 11/03/12, 01:00 PM

So if i get the CDT in the girls 2 times, a Month before kidding and right before kidding about (3 or 4 weeks apart) then i wouldn't have to give the babies the Tetanus Antitoxin once born i could just disbud them?....How safe are the shots? can you over do it?

Ford Zoo · #10 11/03/12, 01:21 PM

Personally, with my does being vaccinated, I just disbudded without tetanus anti toxin. Perhaps someone else does it differently?

I dont think you can over do it. The body is going to respond accordingly based on it's needs and levels of antibodies present.

**mygoat** · #11 11/03/12, 03:00 PM

I'm in the vaccinate boat. HOnestly, the people who DON'T vaccinate may never have a problem. They are usually small herds anyways that are overmanged. But that's simply anecdotal evidence, IMO. It is SO cheap, and the risks of giving it are SOOOOO INFINITESIMAL, why not give it? Then again, I'm for vaccinating dogs, humans, cats... any animal. The chances that something goes wrong because of the vaccine is slim. Your chances of seeing the disease is much higher than issues from the vaccine. If it is effective, safe, and economically intelligent to do so, then do so.

I don't have epinephrine on hand. My stupid vets won't sell it to me. They tried to tell me that an antihistimine would work 'as well' to treat anaphalactic shock... yeah right.

Vaccination of kids is MOST effective when they get passive immunity from their dam as well. Give your does 2 doses 4 weeks apart. Then be sure to vaccinate them again a month pre kidding (no, this won't hurt them). Then vaccinate kids at 4 and 8 weeks of age. Some people booster every 6 months. I do it yearly.

crazy4equines · #12 11/03/12, 03:18 PM

If your goats have never been vaccinated you need to vaccinate them now and in 3-4 weeks give them their 2nd dose that should be good enough. The kids will have immunity via their mothers colostrum milk. I vaccinate my kids when they go into get dehorned and castrated, I have never had any problems and this is what my awesome goat vet recommends.

**mygoat** · #13 11/03/12, 03:31 PM

I have never vaccinated for anything before dehorning/castrations. The passive immunity that goats aquire through colostrum is not adequate unless the doe is boostered 4-5 weeks pre kidding, and only for a few weeks after being born. That is why vaccinating at 4 and 8 weeks of age is very important. ONe booster is not enough to stimulate a proper immune response.

littlequail · #14 11/03/12, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

I'm in the vaccinate boat. HOnestly, the people who DON'T vaccinate may never have a problem. They are usually small herds anyways that are overmanged. But that's simply anecdotal evidence, IMO. It is SO cheap, and the risks of giving it are SOOOOO INFINITESIMAL, why not give it? Then again, I'm for vaccinating dogs, humans, cats... any animal. The chances that something goes wrong because of the vaccine is slim. Your chances of seeing the disease is much higher than issues from the vaccine. If it is effective, safe, and economically intelligent to do so, then do so.

I don't have epinephrine on hand. My stupid vets won't sell it to me. They tried to tell me that an antihistimine would work 'as well' to treat anaphalactic shock... yeah right.

Vaccination of kids is MOST effective when they get passive immunity from their dam as well. Give your does 2 doses 4 weeks apart. Then be sure to vaccinate them again a month pre kidding (no, this won't hurt them). Then vaccinate kids at 4 and 8 weeks of age. Some people booster every 6 months. I do it yearly.

Sounds good to me! i really like the idea of it, i want to have Healthy goats...they are very Healthy but it would be nice if i could stop them from getting sick with just simple shot, i believe i will do the Goat Vac CDT, Now that covers the Tetanus - Antitoxin so i wound not have to give the Tetanus - Antitoxin to the babies for disbudding since there mothers got the CDT? *just trying to understand this* ....Also if the kid is born before i gave the second CDT shot to the mom.....I would just give it to her anyway afterwards....would it still be ok...also is it ok to use Vaccines with dairy goats? they are Nigerian Dwarf, also one large breed goat buck, still ok to give? Sorry for asking so many Questions!!

Backfourty,MI. · #15 11/03/12, 05:36 PM

Yes the CD & T is safe for all breeds of goats & all sizes. they all get 2cc no matter size, weight or age. then 2cc again 3-4 weeks later.

Do the same with the kids like Mygoat suggested. She does 4-8 weeks, I do 6 & 9 weeks on the kids but most of us think it's a cheap insurance. This shot won't keep them from ever getting sick but it gives them a better chance of never getting certain things.

Besides the CD & T covers them for a few different things.

**mygoat** · #16 11/03/12, 06:08 PM

No vaccine is 100% Effective. It is a TOOL to use, and only PART of a disease prevention program. It will lower incidence of disease when properly used/handled, given appropriately, used to prevent the PROPER diseases (don't expect CDT to prevent pneumonia, for example), and along with PROPER MANAGEMENT.

crazy4equines · #17 11/03/12, 06:25 PM

I was just re reading and my post and it did not come out right, I am not very good about putting my words into writing and my thoughts come faster then I can type

But this is what my vet recommended for me and this is what I do. 1st all of my does have all had there yearly cd &t vaccinations. Now a month before they are due to freshen I give them cd &t and Bose vaccinations. This has always worked for me and I have not had any problems with my goats or kids.

Now my vet just informed me this year that when I go to have the kids disbudded or castrated to do it early, he said you can do it as soon as you feel the little nubs, but I always do mine around 2 weeks old and at that time I give my kids their first cd &t vaccination and then booster them in a month.

Backfourty,MI. · #18 11/04/12, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy4equines

I was just re reading and my post and it did not come out right, I am not very good about putting my words into writing and my thoughts come faster then I can type

But this is what my vet recommended for me and this is what I do. 1st all of my does have all had there yearly cd &t vaccinations. Now a month before they are due to freshen I give them cd &t and Bose vaccinations. This has always worked for me and I have not had any problems with my goats or kids.

Now my vet just informed me this year that when I go to have the kids disbudded or castrated to do it early, he said you can do it as soon as you feel the little nubs, but I always do mine around 2 weeks old and at that time I give my kids their first cd &t vaccination and then booster them in a month.

CD & T vaccination on kids 2 weeks old doesn't benefit them at that age. They are still too young. They are protected from the mothers being vaccinated before kidding when they are 2 weeks old. If you want to start at 2 weeks of age for their CD & T shots then you really should give them a 3rd booster 3-4 weeks after the 2nd one. So you'd be giving them at 2 weeks, 6 weeks & 9 or 10 weeks.