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10/31/12, 05:12 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 24,108
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B vitamin questions
Ok..I got my bottle RX Thiamine Hydrochloride injectabel solution 200mg/ml
Why is this better than Fortified Vitamin B complex which has Thiamine HCI 100 mg/ml?? I know the mg is different so you need to use more with the Fortified. The Fortified has more things...like Cobalt for example.
I'm confused again  sorry!
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10/31/12, 06:12 PM
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trail ahead-goats behind
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: oregon
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Because there is a B vitamin that can be ODed on. Vitamin B-6 overload causes muscle weakness, incordination, nervous symptoms, tremors, basically all the things that you are trying to combat with the Thiamine. Do we know what the overload dose is for a goat? Nope. Can we guess? Kind of, but, not really with out some studies and I can't find any. (Caliann?) If you're giving 5 ccs of Fortified B-complex, that contains 50mgs of B-6 times however many times a day you are giving it. For many days in a row. That is a lot of B-6.
Just a theory but, I think that is why Thiamine gets them up and keeps them up, whereas with Fort. B they seem to go down a second time more often.
Everyone is invited to pick apart my theory if you have more info.
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10/31/12, 07:14 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 24,108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchamom
Because there is a B vitamin that can be ODed on. Vitamin B-6 overload causes muscle weakness, incordination, nervous symptoms, tremors, basically all the things that you are trying to combat with the Thiamine. Do we know what the overload dose is for a goat? Nope. Can we guess? Kind of, but, not really with out some studies and I can't find any. (Caliann?) If you're giving 5 ccs of Fortified B-complex, that contains 50mgs of B-6 times however many times a day you are giving it. For many days in a row. That is a lot of B-6.
Just a theory but, I think that is why Thiamine gets them up and keeps them up, whereas with Fort. B they seem to go down a second time more often.
Everyone is invited to pick apart my theory if you have more info.
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Ok..had to read this several times but I get it now. Not because of you that it took so long but because I am having a terrible time absorbing info. I gave her FVBC tonight but will change to the Thiamine for tomorrows dose.
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Teach only Love...for that is what You are
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10/31/12, 07:14 PM
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She who waits....
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: East of Bryan, Texas
Posts: 6,796
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No need to pick it apart, Manchamon, you are correct.
To give the amount of thiamine a goat needs to recover, you come close to overdosing on the B-6. It is one of the cases where what you really need is JUST the thiamine.
Think of it like a salad...how would a salad taste if you had *equal* amounts of lettuce and dressing? It would taste like a bowl full of salad dressing. YUCK!
The B-Complex has enough thiamine in it to keep a goat from going all the way downhill until you can get your hands on thiamine. Just like you can take a multivitamin to keep a scurvy from getting worse (and losing your teeth in the process), but that is a stop-loss measure until you can get your hands on some Vitamin C. However, if you tried to take enough multivitamin to give you the Vitamin C that you needed to *treat* scurvy, you'd end up overdosing yourself on Vitamin A.
Manchamom, of the studies that I have found on B-6 overdose in sheep and humans (can't seem to find any specifically for goats), it is pretty dependent upon the individual. No hard and fast rules on it, unfortunately...so yes, guessing.
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Caliann
"First, Show me in the Bible where it says you can save someone's soul by annoying the hell out of them." -- Chuck
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10/31/12, 07:18 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 24,108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliannG
No need to pick it apart, Manchamon, you are correct.
To give the amount of thiamine a goat needs to recover, you come close to overdosing on the B-6. It is one of the cases where what you really need is JUST the thiamine.
Think of it like a salad...how would a salad taste if you had *equal* amounts of lettuce and dressing? It would taste like a bowl full of salad dressing. YUCK!
The B-Complex has enough thiamine in it to keep a goat from going all the way downhill until you can get your hands on thiamine. Just like you can take a multivitamin to keep a scurvy from getting worse (and losing your teeth in the process), but that is a stop-loss measure until you can get your hands on some Vitamin C. However, if you tried to take enough multivitamin to give you the Vitamin C that you needed to *treat* scurvy, you'd end up overdosing yourself on Vitamin A.
Manchamom, of the studies that I have found on B-6 overdose in sheep and humans (can't seem to find any specifically for goats), it is pretty dependent upon the individual. No hard and fast rules on it, unfortunately...so yes, guessing.
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Got it! 
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Teach only Love...for that is what You are
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10/31/12, 07:35 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,148
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Is thiamine the same thing as b-1? I had a link to b-1 no prescription at one time, but I think it's on my crashed hard drive.
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10/31/12, 07:41 PM
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She who waits....
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: East of Bryan, Texas
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It is the same as B-1. You need a perscription to buy it in the U.S., but you don't need one to buy it from Canada or Australia, or even Europe.
I have no idea why it is Rx here. 
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Peace,
Caliann
"First, Show me in the Bible where it says you can save someone's soul by annoying the hell out of them." -- Chuck
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10/31/12, 07:56 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchamom
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Yep! That was it...thanks so much!
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