Coccidia prevention..... Calf Pro?

LoneStrChic23 · #1 10/28/12, 10:46 PM

I'm trying to decide what route I'll go for cocci prevention for next year....

In the past I've done the typical 5 day round every 21 days with either Corid or Di-methox in the milk with no problem.

This last group of kids were infuriating though! No matter what I did, they would NOT drink medicated bottles.... I tried various sweeteners to mask the flavor, tried splitting the dose in 2 separate bottles, tried starving them for several hours..... Nothing worked! All 4 of my March babies would not consume medicated bottles starting with their very 1st one at 3 weeks old. That left me drenching them for 5 days in a row, and 2 doelings were pros at spitting the meds right back in my face.... Once I gave up & ran a stomach tube down one just to get the meds in without wearing it.....

It was absolutely ridiculous! It's truly a miracle that they survived as I was tempted to shoot them & be done with it. This was my only batch of kids to be this way, but I seriously can not go through that again....

So, I'm thinking of using Calf Pro, which is an ionophore like Rumesin: Home

I talked briefly with one person who used it with great results & wish I could remember where I put my notes on the subject.... I remember they mentioned starting at 3 days old & it was added to milk once or twice a day (in 1 dosr, or dose could be split in 2 feedings).... Supposedly it isn't as nasty as some cocci meds, and if they are getting it every day, perhaps it won't be a fight to get it in them like the once a month treatments....

I'm also trying to get away from medicated feed so I have less clutter, so if I used this the entire time they are on milk (4-6 months usually) I shouldn't need a medicated pellet (actually toying with the idea of raising kids on fodder/sprouted grains instead of pellets)...

Thoughts? Opinions?

Would I use the calf dose listed (comes with a pump that is 10cc per pump)? And if I did would I need to adjust the amount as they grow bigger? Instructions for cattle look to be for those trying to switch to medicated feed ASAP, not in a long term milk feeding situation like I do with my kids.....

CaliannG · #2 10/28/12, 10:54 PM

Crystal, why not just get the Baycox? One dose, you're done, and I didn't have any troubles feeding it in a half bottle, or getting it down them with a syringe.

And it's not that expensive compared to the others....and is CERTAINLY less labor intensive.

No medicated feed here. And one shot coccidia prevention/treatment.

LoneStrChic23 · #3 10/28/12, 11:13 PM

Baycox is a total kill though, and I was looking for something closer to the action that Corid gives..... Not a treatment, but a preventative.

Not to mention, those spitters I mentioned previously, they spit Baycox back in my face too (and Valbazen!), which left me drawing up another dose (And yes, this was using the drenching syringe with the long metal tip..... I swear I have never had kids as bad as my group of March kids!).....

I have some Baycox on hand (well a dose anyways, need to order more) but the Calf Pro chat I had ages ago kinda intrigued me, so I'm looking for more info on it....

I think Emily uses Calf Pro (or has used it) so I'm going to bug her & see if she'll chime in too....

CaliannG · #4 10/28/12, 11:16 PM

Ahhhh, understood.

Baycox doesn't prevent immunity, or lesson immunity, if you didn't already know.

LoneStrChic23 · #5 10/28/12, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

Ahhhh, understood.

Baycox doesn't prevent immunity, or lesson immunity, if you didn't already know.

Oh I know.... I ended up using it on Tricks for her last 3 rounds of prevention & it worked great...... Wouldn't have needed to buy it if a certain evil group of bratty March kids hadn't wasted so much of my coccidia med stash...... Can you tell I'm just a lil disgruntled over what that group put me through???

ANYWHO...... This thread title is not "Gripe about evil, wasteful, labor intensive doelings...."

I'm just trying to sort out what I'm going to do next year...... Baycox was EASY, it WORKED and it was comparable in price, even with shipping, to what I paid for other meds..... But when I had 4 doelings spitting it back in my face, or half of it running out of their mouth, it wasn't affordable and that's the biggest thing I'm worried about.

Rosie actually hacked up cud, & spit it, and the Baycox in my face...... Could not believe she did that!

Perhaps my next kid crop will be as easy/normal as all my previous ones & I'm worrying for nothing, but I'd like options just in case

Semi OT (it's my thread so I can do that right??

) What do you think about fodder instead of pellets for the kids? I bet they'd be more likely to try it than snobbish adults who already have a preferance.... I have a clutter of feed right now..... Layer pellets, chick starter, the 3 bags of stuff I mix in tubs for my milkers, medicated meat goat pellets, Chaffhaye, the remaining alfalfa pellet stash, cat food, scratch grain & dog food..... It's a bit over the top. Won't try the fodder thing until after I move, but if I can grow it & not kill it, and be able to use it as grain replacement for ALL my goats, it would make my world a lil less cluttered...

CaliannG · #6 10/29/12, 12:26 AM

It seems like it would work.

I am evil when it comes to new feed....I introduce it in the morning when they have been locked up for the night, on the milkstand at morning milking. THEN they get their pellets, hay, and are released to browse.

Funny how they don't tend to turn their noses up at new feed when they are bawling for their breakfast.

Alice In TX/MO · #7 10/29/12, 06:06 AM

This is TOTALLY an experiment that I did last spring:

Mix one dose of Di-Methox powder with about a half a teaspoon of molasses. Put in needle-less syringe. Dose kid. I did this three days a week instead of daily.

It worked.

**mygoat** · #8 10/29/12, 08:44 AM

I put rumensin in my grain at a rate of 20g rumensin per ton, and feed to the adult doe herd starting 6 weeks prior to kidding to reduce cocci in the environment. Because I dam raise boer kids, this reduces their liklihood that the kids pick it up. It's not really designed to prevent infection in kids directly, at that feeding rate. Kids simply can't consume enough feed to be effective.

I have NEVER been able to find dose by weight for goats, just how to mix a 'complete feed' at 20g/ton. If any one finds a dose rate, I'd LOVE to hear it!

I've never seen a rumensin for use mixed into milk. For cows, various rates are approved depending on the use. Silly, because NOBODY feeds a total mixed ration or tons of 'complete feed' to their goats. If I could, I'd consider putting it into milk or figuring out how to increase the amount in the feed mix so that it would be effective at preventing it directly in the kids. The FDA has only approved it for use at a rate of 20g/ton feed for goats, so that's what I use. IT doesn't say how much you are supposedto be feeding to each goat, so it's really not helfpul. I switch my dairy girls to nonmedicated feed in the milkstand when they kid.

For my dam raised kids (and probably dairies too), I'll be using Baycox most definetely. The thing to consider is that 70 day withdrawl period. I'm hoping to use it the first 2-3 doses, by then they should be taking in adequate amounts of feed to make a difference. I cannot do 5 day in a row cocci prevention, because I'm only home friday evenings until Sunday afternoons, and catching dam raised kids for 5 days in a row is impossible for my dad to do alone. The dairies are easy for him to do, because they're all on the bottle. Difficult/impossible to mix rumensin in feed at proper rates for the kids, especially as they grow so fast.

I had trouble using dimethox powder last year, too. About the time the kids hit 50lbs body weight, they'd rather not eat medicated milk. I quit doing prevention, and apparently it didn't hurt them - my doeling is 90lbs at 7 months. Then again, my dairies/bottle babies are raised apart form the adult herd, which is where they'd pick up cocci.

I've considered using decoxx powder, which is easy to get from Jeffers or your local feed mill. Can be added directly to milk or replacer, but I think it's fed at EVERY feeding. Pretty affordable from what I remember.

**mygoat** · #9 10/29/12, 08:49 AM

Ahhh. Calf pro is Bovatech. Rate is 1mg/kg BW according to their website. That stuff seems pretty economical - 1ml per 11lbs body weight, per day.

It's not avail from Jeffers... where can you get it? Anybody know pricing?

**mygoat** · #10 10/29/12, 09:00 AM

Kinda off topic, but I did find this on Rumensin in case anybody is interested: Animal Drugs @ FDA

It states the normal 20g/ton feed for goats in 'confinement', with free access to feed. (That is NOT how many goats are managed... *sigh*)

But for beef cows on pasture, 25-400g/ton feed, or .14-.45mg/per lb body weight per day, maximum 200mg/head/day.

For average goat at 180lbs as a bred doe, fed 1/2lb per day for last 6 weeks of pregnancy at rate of .45mg/lb would require 81mg/day. That's an inclusion rate of 32.4g per ton of feed.

KrisD · #11 10/29/12, 10:08 AM

I did the Noble Goat grower starting 5 weeks before kidding. My kids were dam raised this year and I continued to feed it to the does and kids right through weaning. At that point only the kids got it. My kids grew strong and healthy.

Cannon_Farms · #12 10/29/12, 10:37 AM

My nigerian dwarf friend who does about 200 kids a year uses it his place he swears by it but within a week my neighbors had to have some sirous intervention i forget why he said. But while they are at his place they never have issues. Baycox isnt a give it and forget it drug either. Not even a month after fosing several of mine had to be done again. Phone wont let me change fosing to dosing sorry

CaliannG · #13 10/29/12, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon_Farms

Baycox isnt a give it and forget it drug either. Not even a month after dosing several of mine had to be done again.

Oh no! You use Baycox just like Corid, every 21 days for as long as your management does coccidia prevention.

The difference is that every 21 days, you do one dose, instead of a 5 day program.

LoneStrChic23 · #14 10/29/12, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

Ahhh. Calf pro is Bovatech. Rate is 1mg/kg BW according to their website. That stuff seems pretty economical - 1ml per 11lbs body weight, per day.

It's not avail from Jeffers... where can you get it? Anybody know pricing?

I can get the 2 liter bottle with pump for $28 from my local vet supply store.

Another thing that makes it attractive for me is I can get it locally, unlike DecoxM and things of that nature.

I know someone who does a low dose of the Di-Methox daily with good results..... However I am highly allergic to all sulfas, I break out in rashy hives if it even gets on my skin..... So though I have used it when nessesary, I'd like to not have to mess with it.

I raise all my kids separate from adults, and even this year with putting them on virgin ground & pen rotation, I still had to stay on top of coccidia issues.... In my climate I can't use just medicated feed, it's just not enough....

JBarGFarmKeeper · #15 10/29/12, 01:03 PM

Crystal, we used this product this year for ALL of our goats and calves! It's great and we will never go back! Emily uses it too. She said to dose one pump per calf per day, one pump per 2 standard sized goat kids per day and I used one pump per 3 Nigerian Dwarf kids per day.

I got my first gallon (with pump) from PBS Animal Health and now get it from Emily's vet and stock up several gallons at a time.

It is an everyday thing, no break. This way you never count days or forget. No problems and we raised the best healthiest calves and kids ever! Go for it!

LoneStrChic23 · #16 10/29/12, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBarGFarmKeeper

Crystal, we used this product this year for ALL of our goats and calves! It's great and we will never go back! Emily uses it too. She said to dose one pump per calf per day, one pump per 2 standard sized goat kids per day and I used one pump per 3 Nigerian Dwarf kids per day.

I got my first gallon (with pump) from PBS Animal Health and now get it from Emily's vet and stock up several gallons at a time.

It is an everyday thing, no break. This way you never count days or forget. No problems and we raised the best healthiest calves and kids ever! Go for it!

Thank you!!! Are y'all just putting enough pumps into the lambar once a day, or twice a day? Do you keep the dose the same all the way up to weaning (which I won't wean until 4-6 months)? Any trouble with them drinking the medicated milk?

I like the idea of not counting days, and especially not having to drench meds via a syringe.... The price my vet supply offers it for seemed fair too, and I wouldn't have to pay shipping.....

JBarGFarmKeeper · #17 10/29/12, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

Thank you!!! Are y'all just putting enough pumps into the lambar once a day, or twice a day? Do you keep the dose the same all the way up to weaning (which I won't wean until 4-6 months)? Any trouble with them drinking the medicated milk?

I like the idea of not counting days, and especially not having to drench meds via a syringe.... The price my vet supply offers it for seemed fair too, and I wouldn't have to pay shipping.....

Yes, once a day (morning for us). All the way through weaning. Your price is cheaper than mine. It is the best "no fuss, no muss" available.

Hollowdweller · #18 10/29/12, 04:15 PM

I usually don't give my kids any coccidia stuff.

However I raise them on pasteurized milk and use a moveable pen.

When I had them in the barn with the adults I had to give them stuff all the time.

LoneStrChic23 · #19 10/29/12, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollowdweller

I usually don't give my kids any coccidia stuff.

However I raise them on pasteurized milk and use a moveable pen.

When I had them in the barn with the adults I had to give them stuff all the time.

I wish I could get away with that!!

Here in west Texas, we don't get good ground freezes so parasites really don't have any down time and I HAVE to stay on top of things....

All my kids are pulled at birth, raised on heat treated colostrum/pasteurized milk & never see or step foot in an adult pen. This year my kid pen was first on ground that not even my dogs had been on, let alone any livestock..... It was raked weekly with feeders & hay placed so they didn't step in what they had to eat....... I moved it to clean ground (once again, no livestock on it for at least 12 years) at 3 months & 6 months old...... Coccidia prevention started at 3 weeks, repeated at 21 days. I have great growing kids, but if I slack even the tiniest bit, I will have trouble......

Thankfully this obsessive vigilance on my part only has to be for the first 5-6 months.... After that my hard work pays off in kids big enough for breeding by 6-7 months old (though I usually breed at 8-9 months old) & who are thrifty, easy keepers who I rarely ever have to deworm......

It's worth the effort to start them right, but if I can simplify things & still have the same protection, I'll be much happier

Hollowdweller · #20 10/30/12, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

I wish I could get away with that!!

Here in west Texas, we don't get good ground freezes so parasites really don't have any down time and I HAVE to stay on top of things....

All my kids are pulled at birth, raised on heat treated colostrum/pasteurized milk & never see or step foot in an adult pen. This year my kid pen was first on ground that not even my dogs had been on, let alone any livestock..... It was raked weekly with feeders & hay placed so they didn't step in what they had to eat....... I moved it to clean ground (once again, no livestock on it for at least 12 years) at 3 months & 6 months old...... Coccidia prevention started at 3 weeks, repeated at 21 days. I have great growing kids, but if I slack even the tiniest bit, I will have trouble......

Thankfully this obsessive vigilance on my part only has to be for the first 5-6 months.... After that my hard work pays off in kids big enough for breeding by 6-7 months old (though I usually breed at 8-9 months old) & who are thrifty, easy keepers who I rarely ever have to deworm......

It's worth the effort to start them right, but if I can simplify things & still have the same protection, I'll be much happier

That's terrible! I'd think TX would be drier than here and you'd have little problem.