No good deed...Poss. CL

TriWinkle · #1 10/23/12, 05:13 PM

Picked up a Nigerian doe a few months back from a guy I knew...Owed him a favor and he was lean on money...She was polled, so fit it in my little herd, but skittish as heck...guess he didn't mess with her like I do mine.

About a week or so back I noticed a dark spot on her shoulder...I initially thought it was just a cowlick, because they'd been grazing in a different part of the pasture where brush was high...day before yesterday it occurred to me that was on persistent cowlick and I could see it on her SHOULDER when she was in the back pasture and I was near the front of the place...Ok, I'm slow to pick up on things...

Yesterday, I finally get near her (food works wonders...bread is magic) and noticed it was swollen...so take her to the vet today, whatever it was has burst, he asks, "Have you ever heard of CL?" Yeah Sparky, I have...he says we can't test the sore, because it's already been opened, but did take some blood to send off...Gonna take almost a week for me to get some sort of answer, but if I'm playing the odds, knowing my luck, I'm screwed.

I've got no idea what to do at this point if my worst fears are true.

The young vet and his older mentor vet kept saying that CL was "endemic" in these parts...Not sure why they'd thought that would be comforting.

So do someone a solid and get bitten by karma for it...I should have quit while I was ahead...should have known better...now the rest of my herd may pay for my carelessness...Thanks for listening.

mekasmom · #2 10/23/12, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriWinkle

The young vet and his older mentor vet kept saying that CL was "endemic" in these parts...Not sure why they'd thought that would be comforting.

Go to google scholar and look up real scientific studies on the bacteria. Don't rely on lay people to give you advice about bacteria. It is rare, very, very rare for the bacteria to affect humans. Talk to your vet, or your doctor, and get some real medical advice. Don't let lay people scare you without knowing the real facts about the microbe.
Google Scholar

Backfourty,MI. · #3 10/23/12, 05:21 PM

I hope the tests come back negative & I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Is it possible that the friend gave the doe her CD & T booster in that spot & that caused the abcess? Sometimes that vaccine will cause an abcess & it can burst too.

Minelson · #4 10/23/12, 05:27 PM

It may not be CL....and if it didn't open up on your property then your other goats should be ok. Keep her quarantined until you get results. Don't let her be "leaking" all over the place. (((hugs)))

Pony · #5 10/23/12, 05:31 PM

What Michele said.

{hugs}

CaliannG · #6 10/23/12, 05:35 PM

~hugs to you~ So sorry, Triwinkle. But maybe it isn't CL. There are, after all, lots of things that can cause an abscess. Pastuerella, or even if she got stuck by a thorn there and it got infected.

In any case, as Minelson said, don't let her leak. You can bandage the area (it's a pain, but it can be done so it doesn't come off and isn't easily ripped off)), or quarantine her.

If you worry about it having burst on your property, you can sterilize the places where they congregate with a mild bleach solution or kennel cleaner. Also clean and disinfect any feed or water bowls, troughs, etc.

Even if she is positive, it doesn't mean the rest of your goats are. The bacteria that causes CL has to be ingested, or enter through a wound, to infect the other animals. Take heart.

ETA: And more than just one or two little buggies have to be ingested or enter through a wound to infect the other goats....so there IS stuff you can do. By making sure their congregation areas are clean and their feed and water bowls are disinfected, there is a lot less likelihood that they could even get more than one or two bugs, and those won't survive long enough to cause a problem.

noeskimo · #7 10/23/12, 05:54 PM

Great approach -with- knowledge-not fear article. There is a NEW vaccine out, released in July, one specifically made for goats.Sold by Jeffer's .Mine are now vaccinated, and it 's a great thing not to have that worry anymore. http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...phadenitis.htm

CaliannG · #8 10/23/12, 06:06 PM

In about 3 years, when the field trials come back on that vaccine, and if in use it turns out to be as good as they think it might be, I am going to be jumping all over it.

For now, for myself and my herd, I test, they are clean, and I am not bringing anything new in, so I have some time to wait and see how it works out.

I hope it *does* work as expected, because I am looking forward to not having the added expense of CL tests!

Now, if they'd just find a vaccine for CAE and Johne's disease......

TriWinkle · #9 10/23/12, 07:41 PM

Thank you all for your help, advice and good thoughts...Feeling pretty low right now...Guilt mixed with anxiety and fear...Honestly, moving out here was something we'd hoped to do for a while...The cornerstone of this little project was chickens and goats...Small, easily (I thought) manageable animals...Keep losing chickens to various situations and now my goats may be sick...Kinda thinking of throwing in the towel at this point...guess I'll wait for the results until I make my final decision.

KrisD · #10 10/23/12, 08:21 PM

From my understand CL abscesses are "usually" near lymph nodes. Vaccines are usually given in the muscle. If the lump was over her muscle then it very well may not be CL. Don't panic yet. I also think the vets were trying to make you feel better by telling you that you're not the only one.

Pony · #11 10/23/12, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriWinkle

Thank you all for your help, advice and good thoughts...Feeling pretty low right now...Guilt mixed with anxiety and fear...Honestly, moving out here was something we'd hoped to do for a while...The cornerstone of this little project was chickens and goats...Small, easily (I thought) manageable animals...Keep losing chickens to various situations and now my goats may be sick...Kinda thinking of throwing in the towel at this point...guess I'll wait for the results until I make my final decision.

Don't you give up.

Lots of folks have had some pretty serious run-ins with CL, and they stayed in goats. Now they're doing very well, and they've learned from mistakes.

We all make mistakes, we all learn from them. Don't be too hard on yourself. You tried to help someone out. It backfired. Believe me, BTDT, and it really bites.

Hang in. All is not lost. {hug}

Backfourty,MI. · #12 10/23/12, 08:58 PM

Don't throw in the towel! We have all had a bump in the road along the way & I'm sure most of us will have many more on our journey with goats & other livestock as well as pets, family & friends. it's part of life but we all deal with it the best we can, it makes us stronger when we get through it & we go on for more days that are better than the bad one's.
Just look forward to spring kidding & all those adorable baby goats your going to be playing with!

where I want to · #13 10/23/12, 09:09 PM

It can be so many other things beside CL. Especially if the pus was not thick or if it smelled. CL pus is very thick at the time an abscess opens.
But even if the abscess opened, I'm surprised the vet did not express what pus was still there to culture. It's true that such a culture could be contaminated with outside bacteria but if it was negative for Coryne Psuedotuburculosis, you would know it was not CL.

Will be keeping good thoughts for you. More abscess are not CL than are.

Minelson · #14 10/23/12, 09:14 PM

Triwinkle...it will feel a bit better in the morning. It takes time to sort things out... you can't think any more forward until you get the results. In the meantime, it probably isn't CL and it's just an injection site. Big hugs! I know how hard it is to wait. I'm sorry you feel overwhelmed and have had a tough start.

CaliannG · #15 10/23/12, 09:30 PM

We have all made mistakes. I had to put down a lovely doe that I had bought that the seller assured me was disease free....and I believed her. After all, why would a sweet, little old lady lie to me?

I am very glad, now, that I did not throw in the towel when my own ignorance and naivety caused such discouragement. I know so much more now, and my goats are such a joy to me. If I had thrown in the towel then, I would not have their affectionate companionship and love now.

It will get better, hon, I promise. With the chickens too.

ani's ark · #16 10/24/12, 12:21 AM

These ladies all talk good sense, I have nothing much to add. But good on you for doing a kindly act anyway. Dont lose faith in people - whether its CL or not theres a chance the old lady believed she was telling the truth. And its a lesson learnt if you can contain it, you've done all the right things so far in noticing and taking her to the vet. You must have found a good goat vet, judging by what I read there are lots out there who know diddly squat about goats!

luvzmybabz · #17 10/24/12, 09:00 PM

I wonder what CD&T vac they used. I have 2 girls that get lumps from their vacinnes. I gave these vac so know where they were given. You mention a cowlick, if I remember right most CL lumps at the point of bursting have lost the hair around it, but not always!!

ne prairiemama · #18 10/25/12, 08:04 AM

Hoping it's something else!

RedSonja · #19 10/25/12, 06:56 PM

Do you know what lab your vet sent the blood to? I've sent blood to WADDL for CL testing and just want you to know that it could come back with a false positive +/- 1/64 titer if the doe had the Case-Bac vaccination. In that case you need to wait four weeks and send blood for re-testing. They don't charge you for the actual test the second time if you get it to them in four weeks, just the shipping and accession fee.

-Sonja

Hollowdweller · #20 10/26/12, 01:04 PM

I always worry when I bring new animals into the herd.

For many years I never brought any and in the last 2 years I brought 2 does. Both got sold because they wound up not being as good as the ones I had, but there's always that paranoia till you know they are ok.

I've always had good luck with buying bucks and using them rather than bringing does in. Hand breeding.

Normally I isolate anything I bring in for at least 1 month but with stuff like CL and CAE that's not going to do you any good.

But like folks said not all abcesses are CL although the vets statement makes you wonder.