First kidding (mine) around the corner

Shayanna · #1 10/22/12, 11:59 AM

This will be my first kidding, and Birdie (nubian toggenburg mix) should be due end of november, that is assuming she was successfully bred the day we got her, 6/29. This will be her second kidding, her first was with twins approximately a year ago. So I assume the earliest she could be due is late november. Well, first week of october, she is walking funny and holding her tail oddly, having trouble squatting to peelike her back end is hurting her. I googled it and what I read is that this is ligaments loosening up and generally happens about 28 days before kidding. If this is true, will she be delivering early? How early is too early? Is she likely to have twins again? What other things should I be on the lookout for? What kind of help might she need with delivery?

Also have Fern (pure nubian) who is three years old and this will be her first kidding. She just this week started showing the same signs as Birdie, but her "hoohah"(to use the technical term) is looking swollen and her teats more droopy. She is not even looking half the size of birdie.

What concerns should I have? Keeping in mind this is Michigan, and November is a bit chilly.

Shayanna · #2 10/22/12, 12:00 PM

I realize I could keep googling, but I prefer to talk to the fellow homesteaders who have real life experience with their goats.

Kits&Kids · #3 10/22/12, 01:19 PM

I have found that does will bump their kid count their second kiddings. About 70-75% of mine have. As far as the cold goes as long as the kids get dried off quickly and nurse well soon after birth they can handle sub freezing temps no problem as long as they can get out of the wing in some sort of shelter. Three years ago one of my does kidded in -20 degree temps. one of the kids was frozen to the ground but survived with some help.

AuntKitty · #4 10/22/12, 04:01 PM

Oh honey, now you get to find out the joys of the "Doe Code of Honor"! The ligaments may come and go, you may see white goo dripping, they may start developing an udder, they will dig and paw and stretch and moan when they get up from laying down. All this is to fool you into thinking birth is imminent. They will keep this up until you go crazy from lack of sleep checking on them through the night. Then when you finally give up and go to the grocery store, you will come home to adorable little kids dry on the ground. You really just need to go through it once with each doe to learn their signs of being ready to deliver. The rule of thumb is tight, shiny udder and dripping amber colored goo = delivery within 24 hours. If any of my does had the symptoms you describe today, I would expect delivery in around 4 weeks. If she takes more after the Nubian side, I would expect triplets, but I don't have any Toggenberg experience. What breed is the buck she was bred to? I think the only problems you could know to expect would be if the buck is a Nubian who throws big kids and your doe is on the small side. Then you might need to help if she has a singleton or big twins. No need to start worrying now though, just wait to see how big the does get in the next couple of weeks and then you may have a better idea. Have you given Bose shots to the does yet? Might not be a bad idea in case she does kid earlier than you expect. Try not to read too much on the forums because, naturally, people tend to post about what goes wrong, not what goes right, and you can worry yourself into an ulcer!

Kitty

Shayanna · #5 10/22/12, 04:10 PM

The does are bred to our old Alpine buck (may he rest in peace as we lost him to pneumonia a couple months back). We haven't given our goats any shots yet. The doe takes after the Nubian side a bit more, she just has shaggy fur on her back end and legs. Thanks for the advice. How early is too early for a goat to deliver? and how late can they go?

ani's ark · #6 10/23/12, 02:48 AM

I cant answer your questions sorry - I just went through this with my first goat a month ago. She tortured me for weeks (goo, ligaments, panting etc) before easily delivering twins on a Sunday morning with me right beside her - a buckling and a doeling. We had prepared for the worst, and I didnt sleep for days. But it is magic when they finally come. The forum here kept me sane - so many postings on the 'waiting' thread. Just keep posting progress reports and questions, we are all here for you! Photos of the kids are required her too as soon as you can get them up, everyone is dying to see. Good luck!

Shayanna · #7 10/29/12, 03:44 PM

Now I cannot help it. I am worried. Ferns utter is getting big and she is dripping goo, and I know that is normal, but she is now falling because she is having such a hard time walking. And on top of that, now our youngest doe paisley has been attacked by something and has a big wound ln her hind leg. I am now considering making the dh camp outside with a shotgun, gloves, and a towel. Should we give paisley some pcn?

Minelson · #8 10/29/12, 04:28 PM

Shayanna, Any chance you can get a pic of the wound? I would shave the area in order to get a good look at it and clean it up really good to see what you are dealing with. Punctures?

Shayanna · #9 10/29/12, 05:03 PM

No punctures, sry cant get pics, looks more like a rip cause atleaat a 2" x2" bit of fur and skin is missing. Seems sore and itchy

Minelson · #10 10/29/12, 05:37 PM

Temp?

Shayanna · #11 10/29/12, 05:38 PM

I put some benadryl cream on it like I would for my dogs. It reduces swelling and gets them to not itch it. I swear by using benadryl on animals, but i'm worried about it getting infected. Especially since she might be about 4 months along pregnant.

LoneStrChic23 · #12 10/29/12, 08:46 PM

Is the doe that is falling/having trouble walking the one with the goo & udder development also the one who is wounded or is it 2 different goats? What do you mean having trouble walking? Is she staggering about?

CaliannG · #13 10/29/12, 09:18 PM

Shayanna:

On the pregnant doe, if she is staggering, she NEEDS calcium. This far along, staggering is often a result of hypocalcemia, and that *kills* does. Get her some CMPK oral solution at your feed store, mix a pint of it with 1.8th cup of molasses and 1 quart of warm water, and give it to her to drink. Repeat this once per day until two days AFTER she kids, or until two days after she is walking and acting normally, whichever happens last.

On the injured doe: Clean the area very well and use butterfly bandages if the wound is open to close it. Apply Triple Antibiotic ointment with pain relief (which will also sooth itching), such as Neosporin, or the store brand knock-offs, then wrap with gauze and tape. Replace bandage every day until healed.

CJBegins · #14 10/30/12, 07:59 AM

Caliann, about the goat gatorade recipe you gave, how much should she give daily?

CaliannG · #15 10/30/12, 07:01 PM

I give the whole thing. Full quart and a half.

Goats that need it will suck it down like they are dying of thirst. Then lick the bottom of the pail. Goats that do not need it will ignore it.

If a doe has symptoms, ANY symptoms, of calcium deficiency, I will give the Doe Gatorade. Calcium deficiency is nothing to mess with in a pregnant or milking doe, it will *kill* them in a blink of an eye. You think you have time to order something, or next payday you'll get some supplement, and the next thing you know, the doe is gone.

It is one of those sneaky deficiencies. With copper, you get the scruffy coat and bleached hair. With zinc, the flaky skin. Goiters with iodine, and floppy kids with selenium. Nearly all of the other deficiencies give you some sort of warning before your breeding stock, your adult does and bucks, are in serious danger.

With calcium, though, if the doe is pregnant or lactating, it can take her down and all you'll have is a day, or maybe two, of warning that she is severely deficient.

Shayanna · #16 10/30/12, 08:22 PM

guess i made fern sound worse than she is. she isnt just falling over. she is just having a super hard time walking. like moving her back end, picking up her hind feet when she walks and it throws her off balance. if another goat bumps her just wrong it doesnt take much for her to go down. is that normal? birdie, the one who has kidded before, isn't getting any worse.

paisley, who has the wound, is happy as a clam, and the wound seems to have scabbed over decently. i put neosporin on it, but couldnt really bandage it cause of how high up its located.

now, since i am trying to use up my quota of questions, and since i got a pretty good feel on all my does today, and i think they are all bred due to the size factor, what should i feel for if i am feeling their bellies? they are all hard and quite bulbous back towards the teats. should i be able to feel kicks?

sorry about all the dumb questions. and sorry about the bad grammar and typos and delayed responses. i am trying to do all this on my phone.

CaliannG · #17 10/30/12, 09:02 PM

There is no such thing as a dumb question.

What Fern is doing is *not* normal. Mine will attempt to climb trees, jump on cares, and tip-toe on fallen trees when they are a week from kidding, with NO balance issues at all, besides waddling.

Pregnancy sucks calcium out of a doe. Calcium is what helps the muscles move, gets them to do what the brain is telling them to do, etc. Difficulty in walking, troubles with balance, etc., are all signs of calcium deficiency.

The problem is that when she kids, she will pour her reserves of bioavailable calcium into her colostrum. If she has very little in those calcium reserves, she will put ALL that she has into that colostrum and there will not be any left for her. If that happens, without her getting *injections* of CMPK, she will die.

This is why it is best to treat signs of calcium deficiency while the doe is pregnant. Build up her reserves *now*, and you won't have to worry about her kidding and then dying shortly afterwards.

Different does have different needs for vitamins and minerals. This is why you can have one doe in your entire herd that shows signs of copper deficiency, while everyone else looks just fine. Or one doe that always has flaky skin (zinc deficiency) while everyone else is fine. Or half of your herd showing signs of a lack of iron, and the other half not showing anything. Goats are individuals, like people.

BTW, I read, write, and speak absolutely perfect typoese.