Anything in my "chicken feed" that the goats can't have?

gabbyraja · #1 10/18/12, 08:02 PM

It's been quite a few years since I had goats, and being that I wasn't really planning to get any I've not done enough reading up yet (I'm going as fast as I can).

We mix our own chicken feed, and I'm wondering if there is anything in it that would be bad for them? I don't plan on feeding them grain daily, or letting them at the chicken feed, but if I didn't have to mix a separate blend in the spring when I start milking, that would be wonderful. Or, if I could premix most of it in the big 50 gallon garbage bin, and add only a few extras before giving to the chix, etc.:

oat groats
black oil sunflower seeds
hard red wheat berries
soft white wheat berries
brown rice
millet
barley
lentils
sesame seeds
flax seeds
brewer’s yeast
kelp
shredded coconut

Ford Zoo · #2 10/18/12, 09:28 PM

I'm still learning about feed so I can't say. But it looks healthy to me (without knowing of course). What kind of protein does your mix have? You'll want to consider that depending one what stage you are feeding.

Remeber to put out loose minerals and baking soda free choice for them.

Clovers_Clan · #3 10/18/12, 09:49 PM

Oh, my chickens want to come live with you! I'm not familiar with feeding sesame seed, but everything else sounds safe in moderation. What is the ratio of ingredients? Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in regarding balances. Does your mill provide a nutritional analysis on the mix?

**mygoat** · #4 10/18/12, 10:09 PM

Well, it's gonna be pricy.

Much fancier than our chicken food - wow! We don't really make any money on our 'cheap' chicken feed, I shudder to think what the price on a 50lb bag of that costs.

I'd figure how many parts of each and see about fat and protein content. Fat can be pretty high for dairy does, but protein does NOT need to be that high.

A good grain mix for does, even lactating ones, is fairly low in protein - 12-15% protein usually. I know many people who feed straight oats, and free choice alfalfa hay, and do great.

My mix is actaully a 16%, because it's easiest (mixed by our feed mill) and compensates a bit for our lower hay quality. Oats, corn, soybean meal pellet (dairy pellet), little wet molasses, Vita E and Se supplement, and I top dress with some calcium carbonate because alfalfa's hard to get.

I've been kicking around the idea of mixing my own (again) lately. Used to do corn, oats, and a little bit of BOSS. Free choice alfalfa hay back then too... and minerals/baking soda. But now I've got first cut grass hay for them, so obviously nutrition is not as high as it used to be with free choice alfalfa hay, so I bumped up the protein of the feed and added calcium carbonate.

There's about a bajillion different ways to feed livestock. I'm in the boat of feed them as cheaply but adequately as possible, depending on your resources and what's available in your area.

ani's ark · #5 10/19/12, 01:07 AM

Interesting thread, I'm no expert so will wait for them to answer. At a glance that recipe looks so good, I'll have a bowl for breakfast thanks!

I'd be of a mind to mix a base feed for both then add things at feeding time to get the balance right. My lactating doe eats a locally made corn and oat based mollassed calf feed on the morning milkstand and at bed time, at 16% protein. I top dress that with a handful of sunflower seed and a couple of tablespoons of sunflower oil to boost calories. I'm trying not to let her get so darned thin this lactation. Currently looking at crops I can plant to feed chooks and goats to reduce the need for so much grain purchase.

If you are also a gardener try and find my 'Goat Garden' thread, where I asked about planting for goat feeds, some ideas there too.

I'll follow your thread to get some more ideas for mixing my own feed in the long term!

jcatblum · #6 10/19/12, 03:25 AM

Our local extension office took a list of ingredients available at the local feed mill & created self mix feed recipes for layer hens & meat birds. There was only 2 ingredients the mill didn't have - the vitamins & soybean oil. If I drop the ingredients by the mill they will add it into the mix. Depending on feed prices my feed mix has cost $350-$429 a ton. And that is me paying an extra $40 for them to bag it in 50 lb bags to make it easier for the girls & I to handle it.
My personal mix has molasses in it so I try to keep the goats out of my poultry feed..... But as you know a determined goat can find a way into anything. They will even bust open the bags of feed if the barn door is left open.
I recommend anyone with a bunch of livestock locate a local feed mill & get a good affordable mix. This cost me half the price of layer feed from atwoods or TSC. And the feed smells so yummy!

gabbyraja · #7 10/19/12, 08:11 AM

They are pretty much listed in the order of highest content to lowest content, except that coconut should be up with the oats and wheat.

If I were in this to make money, or even save much, I'd worry more about cost. Instead, I am of the mind that healthy animals make for healthy humans that eat the animals (and animal byproducts). I'm raising animals to improve the marginal health of my family, so I take VERY good care of my animals.

And that means no GMOs, no corn, no soy, etc. Can't quite swing all organics, or anything, but... Plus, I only have a relatively few animals. If I were feeding 50 or more, I'd rethink this, maybe. But I have 9 chickens, 2 piglets, and 3 small goats. Not too many...

They all eat 3rd cutting alfalfa and we do Real Salt for the mineral (and DE in their water) and I'll be putting out baking soda today. Also getting some nutri drench (didn't have it on hand when I picked them up, but wouldn't want to take them to be bred in a few weeks without it) today. I use the BOSS for natural vit E and selenium (food-based nutrients are always better than synthetic, for me and all my babies). And I'll have a HUGE garden, and have fruit trees and bushes for fresh feed next year, and have oats, alfalfa, timothy (for the rabbits, mostly) and clover planted in the back for our own "fresh hay" field in the summer. The animals LOVED the sprouts this year. We just moved here in August, so not a lot of harvest this year, but hopefully next year. The elderberries have me most excited. They are just SO good for you!

If you think the chickens eat well, you should see what the pigs get! Our diets are extremely healthy, and they eat what the kids don't finish.

They eat like kings.

Our elevator pretty much only has corn. They wouldn't get me a single ingredient above. The feed store can get things like the oat groat in 50 lb bags, but the special seed and such I get from the health food store. I use our own food budget to buy it in smaller packages now, while we've been testing the mix, but will order in bulk soon. (the chickens had stopped laying at all for a week.Put them on this and they are back to 2-3 eggs per day like they were a month ago. I think it's helping.) I get 20% to 40% off of any purchase, including bulk orders, at my health food store, if I buy at the right time with the right coupon...

I forgot to mention the herbs, though. I put chickweed and comfrey in the chicken food, too. Any reason those would be off limits for goats?

mary,tx · #8 10/19/12, 08:15 AM

I wouldn't be giving goats wheat.

Alice In TX/MO · #9 10/19/12, 08:32 AM

Your goats are likely to need a better mineral supplement.

Goats have a high need for copper, selenium, etc.
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...eficiency.html
http://www.goatbiology.com/selenium.html

It's my understanding that DE looses effectiveness when wet.

gabbyraja · #10 10/19/12, 08:52 AM

If DE loses effectiveness when wet, how does it work internally at all...? It's still full of minerals, and is supposed to reduce/eliminate algae and mosquito larvae, from what I can recall. That's why it is added to stock tanks, and why we started adding it to the water. But, that was many years ago, so maybe I'm remembering wrong. I'll check that out. And your mineral links. Thanks!

Why no wheat for goats? It's the only thing I was iffy about even adding to the feed to begin with, so I'll find a sub if there's a good reason.

Alice In TX/MO · #11 10/19/12, 09:09 AM

That's my point.

I simply don't buy into the propaganda in favor of using it internally.

There is quite a bit of controversy about WHETHER it really DOES work internally. The critters that we KNOW it works on are roaches, fleas, etc., which have exoskeletons. Intestinal parasites do not. If DE can damage the skin of an intestinal parasite, I'd ask if it can damage the gut surface of livestock. Here's a horse article that addresses that question:
http://www.learningabouthorses.com/s...ous_earth.html

I've never ever heard of adding it to stock tanks for mosquitoes. It would settle to the bottom, and the eggs/larvae are at the surface. It is, however, used for filtering material in water features, but that's another application entirely.

Diatomaceous earth isn't, as far as I know, used to control algae. It is the fossiled remains of algae. From Wikipedia:
Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms, a type of hard-shelled algae.

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/mo...search_qa_link
Mosquito control product containing diatomaceous earth?
Answer:
Diatomaceous earth is not a good choice when it comes to mosquito control because DE will not adhere to the places mosquitoes like to land such as the underside of leaves on trees and bushes. Also, DE can take a week or more to kill an insect and in that time those insects can continue to bite, breed and lay eggs and in the case of mosquitoes this is just not acceptable.

http://technorati.com/lifestyle/gree...rganic/page-2/
Which Pests DE Controls
According to the Arizona Cooperative Extension, DE is effective on any critter with an exoskeleton-insects with six legs and arthropods with 8 or more legs. That covers the majority of things that crawl in your garden that you might refer to as “bugs”: Fleas, Flea Beetles, Sawflies, Coddling Moths, Twig Borers, Thrips, Mites, Cockroaches, Slugs, Snails, Aphids, Scorpions, Earwigs, Silverfish, Ants, Bedbugs, Cabbage Root Flies, Pillbugs, Ticks, Gnats, etc.

How To Use Diatomaceous Earth
When you see signs of insects feasting on young plants, sprinkle DE (or use a bulb blower) around the base of the plants and the ground surrounding them. Make sure that dry weather (including low humidity) is predicted for 72 hours, because once DE comes in contact with high humidity or water, it cakes up and loses its effectiveness. Also, wear gloves when you handle it, as it may cause skin irritation.

mary,tx · #12 10/19/12, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabbyraja

Why no wheat for goats? It's the only thing I was iffy about even adding to the feed to begin with, so I'll find a sub if there's a good reason.

I've always read that ruminants should not have wheat because of the gluten.

Alice In TX/MO · #13 10/19/12, 09:24 AM

About wheat.... I found one reference saying it was the most acid forming grain, which is a bad thing for goats.

CaliannG · #14 10/19/12, 10:16 AM

gabby, add Replamin Plus to your "have on hand" stuff. It's great if you start noticing any mineral deficiencies in your animals. Also, It is made up of amino acid complexes. That is just fancy talk for yeast. They feed the raw minerals to the yeasts, the yeasts turn it into really bio-available minerals in their little, cell-like bodies, and then they heat treat the yeast to kill it and sterilize the stuff, then mix it with some oil and anise seed so it tastes good to critters.

If your goats' coats are rougher and courser than your hair, then they are likely mineral deficient. A goat that has all of the minerals and vitamins they need is a goat with a good immune systems that doesn't get sick, and one that doesn't have serious problems with parasites.

JMO, but I think that providing goats with plenty of vitamins and minerals is much, much better than having to fill them full of chemicals and antibiotics to treat parasites and illnesses.