Uh oh! The other buck got in the pen with the does!

ne prairiemama · #1 10/15/12, 05:26 PM

We had a buck in with the does and his friend got in and *ahem* did some business while he was in there.

The other book had already been doing *business* with the does for the past few days. Now how will we know who's babies are who's?

They are all registered/able Nubian goats that were purchased from Nubilop Acres. The bloodlines are fine to mix from either buck I believe so I'm not worried about that but we will likely want to sell some babies in the spring and I have no idea how to advertise them? Are there tests to prove the daddy or do I just say it is either or?

Anyone in need of a perverted registered buck near Southeastern Nebraska?

(really though dh wants to just keep one Nube buck so I'm sorta serious LOL!)

Squeaky McMurdo · #2 10/15/12, 05:55 PM

There's got to be. The AKC has cheek swab DNA tests and registration for litters of puppies with multiple sires, so the technology is there!

Lol ewww sloppy seconds

ne prairiemama · #3 10/15/12, 06:03 PM

I wonder what the cost would be.....? lol

The Tin Mom · #4 10/15/12, 06:07 PM

I know there are DNA tests available. The breeder whom I purchased my goats from provides verification on all of her bucks (and I think even some does) now.

**mygoat** · #5 10/15/12, 08:02 PM

Yup, pretty sure ADGA has a DNA hair test. You'd have to do both possible sires. I'd do all kids born 150 days from now, plus or minus a week from the break-in... So if he was just in there today, I'd DNA any kids born between 143 to 157 days from now. That should pretty much cover all viable kids, which are born up to a week early and up to a week late (though I'd say most are born plus or minus 5 days from 150 day duedate, a week is a bit 'safer')

ne prairiemama · #6 10/15/12, 08:21 PM

Thank you! We only have 4 does so ALL the babies could potentially be either or now.

dosthouhavemilk · #7 10/15/12, 08:30 PM

$60 for each goat DNA tested. So the 4 mommas, the two bucks and then any kids you wanted to test. So you are looking at $360 just to DNA type the adults, then an additional $60 for each kid. Assuming the bucks are not too closely related to one another. Nice thing is, once you have DNA typed then, that is the only time you need to do so. Their type does not change.

If it were me, and I didn't mind a bit of a late start on kidding season. I would pull both bucks and Lutelyse the four does in 15 days. Then put the buck that you want back in. You could lose about three-five weeks, however.

ne prairiemama · #8 10/15/12, 09:06 PM

Lutelyse? That is like a goat abortion no? I don't think I could do that

dosthouhavemilk · #9 10/15/12, 09:22 PM

Lutalyse causes the cervix to open and the uterus to expel its contents, yes.

It is for each farmer to decide.

We do not go around Lutalysing ona whim. We will be lutalysing our two Purebred Polled Nubian does so they can be bred to the Purebred Nubian buck of my choosing however. All the other oopsies breeding we are having this year will likely be let go and the offspring sold for meat.

At 11-15 days the egg may just be implanting, if there is even a pregnancy. Eggs are absorbed or pregnancies lost early in pregnancies on a regular basis. Part of nature.

If you have a market for Who's Your Daddies" then it doesn't matter. You can let them carry to term. The doelings can be recorded through ADGA as 50% Nubian (and then bred back up to American Nubian) assuming the dams are registered/recorded with ADGA as Purebred or American. If someone wanted to know for sure you can always do the DNA typing.

As it stands, none of the offspring can be ethically registered with ADGA without DNA Typing done onthe possible parties. There should be no exposure to another buck for ten days on either side of a breeding to be able to register/record the offspring.

ne prairiemama · #10 10/15/12, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dosthouhavemilk

Lutalyse causes the cervix to open and the uterus to expel its contents, yes.

It is for each farmer to decide.

We do not go around Lutalysing ona whim. We will be lutalysing our two Purebred Polled Nubian does so they can be bred to the Purebred Nubian buck of my choosing however. All the other oopsies breeding we are having this year will likely be let go and the offspring sold for meat.

At 11-15 days the egg may just be implanting, if there is even a pregnancy. Eggs are absorbed or pregnancies lost early in pregnancies on a regular basis. Part of nature.

If you have a market for Who's Your Daddies" then it doesn't matter. You can let them carry to term. The doelings can be recorded through ADGA as 50% Nubian (and then bred back up to American Nubian) assuming the dams are registered/recorded with ADGA as Purebred or American. If someone wanted to know for sure you can always do the DNA typing.

As it stands, none of the offspring can be ethically registered with ADGA without DNA Typing done onthe possible parties. There should be no exposure to another buck for ten days on either side of a breeding to be able to register/record the offspring.

I agree it is up to each person, just for me since it's our fault he somehow got in there, I'd feel wrong about it. I'm very sensative to stuff like that though. (I have a hard time at butcher time for the roosters even.) I hope I didn't sound offensive at all. I'm certainly not judging anyone for their choices.

Thank you for all of the information. The does are all registered (Nubilop Acres Razberry Blossom, Lyttle Lady, Piper Roze & All that Jazz ) and the Bucks are registerable but I haven't sent the papers off yet.
(Their parents are Nubilop Acres Designer Lineage & Shobuisness for one and Stagelight Palace Night& Nubilop Acres Summertime Blues for the other)

I guess we'll just see if they take and look at the DNA testing at kidding season if they do.

If they take this month they should miss their next heat cycle?

JBarGFarmKeeper · #11 10/15/12, 10:24 PM

Through ADGA it is $28 per sample. That would be both bucks and all kids that you need to know about. One doe could have two kids sired by different bucks.

I also did DNA testing through a private lab a few years back and it was $35 per sample. Unless the bucks are line-bred on the same genetics, they'll be able to tell.

Lute may NOT fix your problem. We've all had Lute kids (calves, pups, etc.)

JBarGFarmKeeper · #12 10/15/12, 10:31 PM

Human DNA testing for paterninty and forensics

This is the lab I used before...maybe it was $30 each. I can't remember, I think I've slept since then...

ne prairiemama · #13 10/15/12, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBarGFarmKeeper

Through ADGA it is $28 per sample. That would be both bucks and all kids that you need to know about. One doe could have two kids sired by different bucks.

I also did DNA testing through a private lab a few years back and it was $35 per sample. Unless the bucks are line-bred on the same genetics, they'll be able to tell.

Lute may NOT fix your problem. We've all had Lute kids (calves, pups, etc.)

THANK YOU!!! Thats alot more doable price wise!

They are dueto be born a bit after tax time so that will help too if we have a refund we can use that forthe testing

I was wondering if does could have babies from both in there at the same time!

It will be interesting to see who is born!!

**mygoat** · #14 10/16/12, 08:33 AM

You wouldn't have to do mommas, would you? You KNOW which kids belong to which mommas. The only thing would be sires - so you'd have to do the two possible sires and any questionable kids - the ones born 143-157 days from the break in.

There's a good chance NONE of the does were bred that day - you sure any were even in heat? Have you bred any of them to the other buck, over a week ago? Chances are even if you bred a doe to to the other buck 2-3 days ago, she's no longer in heat, and her kids are the other sires'.

ne prairiemama · #15 10/16/12, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

You wouldn't have to do mommas, would you? You KNOW which kids belong to which mommas. The only thing would be sires - so you'd have to do the two possible sires and any questionable kids - the ones born 143-157 days from the break in.

There's a good chance NONE of the does were bred that day - you sure any were even in heat? Have you bred any of them to the other buck, over a week ago? Chances are even if you bred a doe to to the other buck 2-3 days ago, she's no longer in heat, and her kids are the other sires'.

I wouldn't think so. We have always been there for the births and there shouldn't be a question on Mama. I was wondering about why we would need to test them but am new at this lol.

The main buck has been in there two weeks and he believe he "did his duty" about a week ago and ever since then. I haven't been keeping a terribly close eye on them though. My human kids started school (we homeschool) last month and with a toddler and being pregnant I have been slack on the goat watching lol.

I'm not sure if they are in heat right now or not I just figured if he was in for the whole month he wouldn't miss that window.

I know that he got to 1 o
f them for sure but he might not have even got the others....not sure if he had time?