My AI adventures thus far!

**mygoat** · #1 09/17/12, 01:17 PM

Filled my AI tank for 46.00. The guys there now know me as a crazy goat lady.

They were worried about the quality of my tank (and me knowing nothing) they were willing to show me a few things about it. They said there'd be trouble if the top of the tank was still frosted by this evening, and since I've been home it is no longer frosted so I think we're good! It only has to last me till Oct 6th anyways.

Placed my order from biogenics for a measly 8 straws. But, I plan on using all 8 this year so I can let my tank go dry and avoid tank maintenance costs.

4 straws of SGCH Cherry Glen Password Gentry 1-04 EEV 90 (daughters average 3290lbs milk, 120F, 100P) - I really like his pedigree. AM Alpine buck, 45.00 per straw.

4 straws of 2Dox Amigo *Ennobled* - Boer buck, 35.00/straw. I don't know tons about boer genetics etc, But he's got 8 ennobled relatives in his pedigree, not including himself... figured that was pretty good for the price.

Shipping was 135.17. Total cost for just semen/shipping - 455.17.

CIDRS cost 5.11 ea, PG600 is 2.66/dose. Using them on a total of 12 does this year, but I am only AI'ing 4 does. CIDRS should be reusable. Also bought an applicator for 9.95 that is reusable. I will be using some PG600 frozen, 2 months old, but will be throwing out the extra 3-ish doses.

I didn't buy the most expensive or fancy bucks... I was too worried to spend a TON of money on something I've never done before, lol. I know as a first time' technician', my success rate may be pretty low.

I'm planning to AI 4 does - 2 alpines, 2 boers. AI date is approx Oct 6th. I have my PG600/CIDR removal all planned out - the does had CIDRS put in on Saturday evening (9/15). Technically they should be put in on Thursday this week for a 2 week insertion time, but this way I don't have to drive home and make a special trip home to do it. Will have to drive home on tuesday 10/2 PM to give PG600, and will stay wednesday night so I can get up early on Thurs AM 10/4 and pull CIDRS. Standing heat expected on Friday AM, proper AI conditions expected on Saturday.

I plan on placing semen twice - once about 24 hrs after standing heat then again 8 hrs after that to increase chances of success. I've got bucks that can live cover the rest of my does, and will preg-check via biotracking 30 days after AI/live cover (might as well do CAE at the same time!) Their duedate will be the first week of March - which is my spring break from college.

Any who are still open (and the babies who are a little young yet for the earlier breeding) will be synced again using CIDRS/PG600 for a duedate a week after my classes are over for the year - around May 10th.

Total cost per dairy doe AI'd - 97.77. (2 does)

Total cost per boer doe AI'd - 77.77. (2 does)

(1 CIDR, 1 dose PG600, 2 straws of semen per doe)

ETA: Total cost of synchronizing LIVE COVER does - 7.77 ea (6 does)

Also forgot to add in the cost of my AI kit - which is as complete as it gets, bought from Biogenics as the super fanciest one they offer. Technically was my christmas present this year, but it's cost was 185.95. Their basic kit (which is still pretty darn good) is 154.45. Comes with a TON of stuff.

Shew. I've never planned something so thoroughly before in my life.

mahnah · #2 09/17/12, 02:21 PM

sadly this is like reading greek to me. You sound like such a scientist and i have no idea. Maybe I should not get goats after all.

MDKatie · #3 09/17/12, 02:28 PM

Good luck!!! So are you just inserting semen in the vagina or do you need to go through the cervix? I thought AI in goats was more difficult in cows (which wasn't all that easy for me!). Keep us updated!!

**mygoat** · #4 09/17/12, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahnah

sadly this is like reading greek to me. You sound like such a scientist and i have no idea. Maybe I should not get goats after all.

You don't need to know what any of that stuff is to own goats. I've had them since I was 11 years old (I'm 22 years old now), and this is the first time I've used CIDRS, PG600, or done AI.

In previous years, I did everything the 'ole fashioned way - give the girl to the boy when in heat. But last year was my first year living away from the farm (I attend MSU), and breeding season was a fiasco, lol. Dad was in charge of checking for heats. Since he can't spot heats a mile away like I can, I told him to put a buck on a leash and walk him over to the doe pen to see who flirts with him through the fence every day. Turns out he didn't have time to take the buck over to the doe pen every day to check for heats, thus the duedates were all over the place.

CIDRS are essentially hormone releasing devices. It is put in the vagina rather like a tampon (but has a t-shape at the end which spreads open in the vagina for better 'hold'), and the progesterone in them releases and is absorbed into the bloodstream. When you remove it, the level of progesterone drops drastically in the body, which mimics the normal hormone cycles that causes estrus (heat), and thus induces a heat. Using them means that you can synchronize your breedings for your convenience. For example, due to school, it is most convenient that my does kid out on my spring break OR after I'm home for the summer. So, I'm breeding them (AI or live cover) so that their duedate will be during my spring break OR after my classes are over for the year.

PG600 is a hormone injection given to animals to ensure ovulation. It is given 36hrs prior to removal of the CIDRs.

--------------

Breeding goats only has to be as technical as you want it to be. Putting a boy in with the girls is the easiest way to go and will get the job done.

I prefer hand breeding, which is taking the girl to the specific boy when she's in heat, giving you an exact duedate to expect kids. AI is just a tool to further my herd while introducing genetics I wouldn't otherwise be able to get safely (Biosecurity etc). I have a boer buck and an alpine buck to do live cover with, but through AI I can bring in some of the best genetics without having to feed another buck, or shell out the purchase price of said buck. And, I don't have to worry about disease spread as much as I would bringing in a new animal.

Syncing heats is totally for convenience and may be unnecessary for your situation. As with all livestock management, everyone does it different. This just (hopefully!) will work for me!

**mygoat** · #5 09/17/12, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDKatie

Good luck!!! So are you just inserting semen in the vagina or do you need to go through the cervix? I thought AI in goats was more difficult in cows (which wasn't all that easy for me!). Keep us updated!!

Semen is deposited through the cervix into the uterine body.

AI is mainly more difficult in goats than in cattle, because you do not palpate the cervix rectally in goats... physically impossible to insert your arm into the rectum of a goat, whereas its quite easy to palpate the cervix of a cow rectally.

A speculum (clear tube thing) is inserted vaginally. An AI light is inserted into this tube so you can see what's going on. You then look down the tube into the vagina and find the cervix, which will be open during a heat. You then insert the gun, manipulate it through the cervix, and deposit the semen. I'll be doing it twice... once 24 hrs after standing heat is observed, and again 8 hrs later. Ovulation occurs at the END of standing heat, so depositing twice means I have a better chance of doing it at the right time.

mahnah · #6 09/17/12, 04:20 PM

wow thank you for a really good explanation, I learned something

andabigmac · #7 09/17/12, 04:44 PM

You just made this sound easy, time consuming but easy. This would be cheaper than housing bucks all year and then having to replace them when you had daughters to keep too. I wish I could watch this be done. My vet won't do AI. Do you get the tank filled at a place that sells bottled gases? How do you store the charged tank? Is there a book or video that shows details? Knocking Your Goat Up For Dummies maybe?

LoneStrChic23 · #8 09/17/12, 04:53 PM

How exciting! Gentry is a nice buck

I had a +*B SGCH Cherry Glen Handel Galaxy daughter & the breeder I got her from had a real pretty Gentry daughter that I tried to talk her out of....... Their dam, Gesture, is just lovely....

Hope out all works out well for you, sounds like you're as prepared as you can be

**mygoat** · #9 09/17/12, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andabigmac

You just made this sound easy, time consuming but easy. This would be cheaper than housing bucks all year and then having to replace them when you had daughters to keep too. I wish I could watch this be done. My vet won't do AI. Do you get the tank filled at a place that sells bottled gases? How do you store the charged tank? Is there a book or video that shows details? Knocking Your Goat Up For Dummies maybe?

Keep in mind it's not once-you're-done. While someone who does a lot of AI can get REALLY good at it... it is a learned skill. Sucess rates for new technicians is pretty low. I hope to eventually do MOSTLY AI, and keep a boer buck around to use as live cover as a 'clean up' buck. I have two chances - spring break kidding and summer break kidding. Summer break is fine, but it means my kids are born later, so I *prefer* March kids. Anything that doesn't take in March, however, MUST get bred (and the main way to be pretty sure of conception is live cover)... so I'll probably always have at least one buck around. And yes, I'll probably have to trade bucks and bring in new genetics here and there... I'll start small for practice, and eventually hopefully I'll get good and will do more does AI every year than I do live cover.

But it IS feasilble - keep in mind that most commercial dairy cow herds NEVER see a bull. They use CIDRS/Lute occassionally, but simply have much better management for heat detection (activity monitors, mount detectors etc) than do most average goat people

Also, cows can be paplated rectally. Though in theory, it shouldn't matter much, because you can visually see the cervix being penetrated. You can mark on the AI gun 1.5" from the tip, that's about how far (and not much father) you should penetrate through the cervix to deposit semen.

There are LOTS of places to fill tanks. Any semen storage place, any place that sells gasses will usually have liquid nitrogen. For example, we have a place right on MSU campus (but not affiliated with MSU) called Northstar Cooperative - they are a Select Sires (cow) semen distributor, DHI lab etc. They fill tanks on mondays. My 20 L tank cost me 46.00 to fill. But, I will fill it only once, and let it go dry after I use my semen this year. Since it's a used tank, I think I'll try to monitor the level of nitrogen over time to see how it does. It is an older model, but is still used regularly. The guys at Northstar were worried about it's holding ability (due to it boiling excessively for a while, though granted it was in my trunk an fairly warm before I filled it), as well as the noise it makes when tapped on it's side... their tanks sounded way diffrent. But my tank doesn't appear to have any structural damage, pitting, or rust... so we'll see.

I only need it to hold until after 10/6! LOL

Storing tanks away from moisture, and in a place out of the sun is very important. Most people keep them in the barn up on a wood pallet, on carpet remants in a dry place, etc. Rusting, pitting, and damage can really affect the storage time. I'm considering ONLY ordering the semen I require every year, to eliminate storage. However, that means if I really want to utelize a buck regularly or keep him around for a long time because he's *worth it*, I'd have to think about filling my tank more often. But for now, buying what I need is probably my best bet.

LoneStrChic23 · #10 09/17/12, 05:33 PM

I was told there was risk in storing tanks empty....

When discussing tanks with an AI veteran, they mentioned buying used tanks, but I should never consider a tank that had been left dry for extended periods.... Any truth to this or just preferance of a few?

I'm wanting to learn how to AI.... Looking into it, I found the place where we lease hubby's oxygen & acetylene bottles for his welding rig also carry nitrogen & I could get tanks filled cheaply there....

Still have a long time before I'll be AIing, but it's nice to know that if I decide to invest in my own equipment, it's feasible to maintain it in my area..

**mygoat** · #11 09/17/12, 05:51 PM

I think there's an inherent risk of buying empty tanks. I don't think letting them set empty hurts them... don't see how it could, physically... But then, I'm no expert.

BUT, buying an empty tank means you have to take the seller on their word that it is in working order, especially if you don't know what you're looking at. Oftentimes they're expensive... several hundred dollars for a new or high quality used tank. If you're buying a dry tank for 500.00, that's a big investment to make on someone's word.

My tank cost 150.00. I figured that was not a TERRIBLY risky investment. And yes, it still had some nitrogen in it when we bought it, but we have since let it go dry and it has set for over a year empty...

Mine still had some N2 in it and would still 'smoke' when opened about a month later... though me and the lady who bought it jointly (I have since just bought her half off of her) didn't know anything about AI tanks and thus didn't measure levels or anything like that. That's why I'd like to monitor it this time with a true fill. One thing to look for is frosting/condensation on the outside of the tank, which indicates rapid N2 loss (big problem). Thus far my tank appears to be holding well - the frost on the top is gone, the tank doesn't feel awkwardly cold, no frost/condensation... I think I'm safe!