Sick Baby!

andabigmac · #1 08/09/12, 09:18 AM

My little Heiorun didn't want her bottle this morning which is not like her. She usually hears the front door open and starts screaming. She was fine at 10pm.

Her belly is not distended or bloated. Her temp is 103. Ali's is 102.6. It's already 82* here. So I'm not too worried about her temp.

She is lethargic but standing. She's sort of hunched up but she keeps walking and stretching.

She was wormed with Valbazan when she got here. She is on cocci prevention. We don't have a cocci problem here but I try to err on the side of caution.

I gave her some kefir, pepto, and baking soda. I also drenched her with a weak tea of peppermint, ginger, and chamomile. Does she need Banamine or B-complex? Does this sound like bloat? I haven't seen her poop but I also haven't been with her every second. Could she be constipated? I'm thinking no because it looks like her poops may have been a bit runny last night. What else should I check for? I've never had a sick goat except for skin problems.

CaliannG · #2 08/09/12, 09:29 AM

How old is she? The hunching and stretching sounds like WMD. If that is so, she needs selenium.

andabigmac · #3 08/09/12, 09:39 AM

Would that make her go off her feed? I can throw a shot of Bo-Se in there. I also have gel and powder.
She was born April 3rd. So a smidge over 4 months.

CaliannG · #4 08/09/12, 09:40 AM

White Muscle Disease

White muscle disease is a degenerative muscle disease found in sheep and goats. It is caused by a deficiency of selenium and/or vitamin E. Selenium deficiency
is associated with areas where the soil is deficient in selenium, while a vitamin E deficiency reflects poor forage quality. White muscle disease is most often seen
in newborns and fast-growing animals.

White muscle disease may affect skeletal muscles, heart muscle, or both. When the skeletal muscles are affected, the animal will arch its back with a hunched
appearance, and have a stiff gait. When the heart muscle becomes affected, the animal may present with difficulty breathing; fever; and frothy, blood-stained nasal discharge.

Other clinical signs associated with selenium and vitamin E deficiency that may be seen along with white muscle disease include reproductive losses such as lower conception rates, fetal re-absorption, dystocia, retained placenta, reduced milk production, reduced semen quality, and reduced immune response.

White muscle disease can be treated with an injection of both vitamin E and selenium since the condition may be caused by a deficiency in one or both. Affected animals will usually respond to a single treatment within 24 hours, and a second dose of vitamin E (though not selenium) may be given if individuals are unresponsive. Treatment should not exceed two doses on a short-term basis.

Selenium and vitamin E deficiencies occur when animals are fed feedstuffs low in one or both compounds. The disease can be prevented through feed and mineral supplementation. Injections of selenium and vitamin E can also be given, but a producer should get advice on the use of these injections from a veterinarian.

CaliannG · #5 08/09/12, 09:43 AM

Yes, it can have them go off of their feed. Arching, hunching, and stiffness tend to be symptoms of either WMD or Tetanus.

andabigmac · #6 08/09/12, 09:54 AM

She weighs 61lbs. Should I give 1.5ml IM? I know the breeder has been having problems with WMD this year. I've only had her for less than two weeks. Poor baby. I hate when they're off in any way. Thanks for the advice. Hopefully this works!

CaliannG · #7 08/09/12, 10:24 AM

Yes, 1.5ml should be the dose for her size.

If no improvement is shown, go with tetanus antitoxin.

andabigmac · #8 08/09/12, 10:30 AM

Do you think she'll need a second dose or just a vitamin e capsule squeezed in her mouth tomorrow? Or should I just wait and see how she's doing and repeat if necessary?

CaliannG · #9 08/09/12, 11:02 AM

ONLY a Vitamin E capsule! Do NOT, under ANY circumstances, give an animal multiple doses of Bo-Se or Mu-Se. If you don't see marked improvement with a single dose, treat with Vitamin E, either in capsule or in gel, afterwards, or consider a misdiagnoses, and treat for tetanus.

Sorry, but this is very serious. One dose is very, very seldom harmful to an animal, but it is VERY easy to overdose on selenium, so never double up doses. Use Vitamin E instead.

yarrow · #10 08/09/12, 11:09 AM

Give her the BoSe, esp. if the breeder didn't...

... BUT... off feed & stretching could be belly pain too.. here she would be getting the 3 BIG B's (silly little name, but it' how I help my buyers remember what to give LOL) Baking Soda (I know you've given some already).. Banamine and B12 (or B complex) with this coming on so fast... my vote is something has her gut unhappy.... this age group.. you ALWAYS think about Cocci... new home, stress of moving.. first sign is belly ache lots of times, before any scouring ect..... (a go round of Cocci treatment will not hurt her...even if that's not her problem)

good luck, it's so hard to have a sick baby
susie

andabigmac · #11 08/09/12, 11:57 AM

She just finished her co-rid round 3 days ago. Should I give it to her again? I'll banamine and b-complex her. I also have b-12 sub-lingual dots.

BTW- if you try to be lazy and mix kefir, baking soda, and pepto in one bowl to put in the drench gun to save time it just makes a pink, foamy mess on your counter. It's best to go separate with all of them.

yarrow · #12 08/09/12, 12:04 PM

first thing is to get her feeling better and wanting her bottle.. try the banamine & the b complex ...you don't want to give her too much stuff and make her belly worse... let the banamine do it's job and then see how she does with her next bottle.. (I use to use Corid, but didn't have good results.. a sulfa based drug works better for us.. I use Di-Methox injection 40% (given orally)... next kidding season I'm going to try Toltrazuril / Baycox

susie, mo ozarks

CaliannG · #13 08/09/12, 12:07 PM

I've done something similar to the pink, foamy mess! LOL

I wasn't thinking of bloat or coccidia since you had mentioned that she wasn't distended, and was on cocci preventative. But she HAS had a bit of diarrhea.

You can dose her on Corid if you wish, but you need to give the the B-12 too. Corid plays havoc on Thiamine. Were you using the B-12 dots while she was on the Corid? I generally would not think coccidia if she just came off a treatment, though.

andabigmac · #14 08/09/12, 12:09 PM

I plan on changing to baycox when I'm done with this bottle of Co-rid. I only have an inch to go. I only have 4 babies this year so it's going slow!

Thanks for the help.

andabigmac · #15 08/09/12, 12:11 PM

I wasn't using the B-12. I didn't think I needed to because from what I read the thiamine is inhibited in the cocci and not in the goat. Should I have given her B-12 while she was on the co-rid?

CaliannG · #16 08/09/12, 12:18 PM

If I am doing Corid (and I had to this year, my vet's supplier was back-ordered on Baycox), then I do the thiamine too. Extra thiamine won't HURT a goat, as they excrete what they don't need in their urine. But you can't get into their multiple stomachs and tell HOW many bacteria are in there inhibiting things, so I just assume there IS bacteria, and use the thiamine.

andabigmac · #17 08/09/12, 12:23 PM

Good to know!

CaliannG · #18 08/09/12, 12:24 PM

Called my vet for you. As she has the reasons at the tip of her tongue and I have to go digging through my papers.

They USED to think Corid only mimics Thiamine in the bacteria, but later studies found out different. So goats will, at least a lot of times, uptake Corid as Thiamine. So, to counteract that, Thiamine is given as an injectable to the goat, or in other skin treatments, while the Corid is given orally, as the bacteria live in the gastro-intestinal tract. That way, the goat gets the needed thiamine while the bacteria do not.

Minelson · #19 08/09/12, 03:54 PM

How is the little one doing?

andabigmac · #20 08/09/12, 04:26 PM

She's on the right. Ali's on the left. She didn't eat as much as Ali. She ate about half what she normally eats, but she ate!