This is why I don't like bottle kids

Alice In TX/MO · #1 08/03/12, 08:33 AM

Little Jubilee, who was fostered out to another family, came home early this week. Because she was very small, I slowly increased her from the ONE bottle per day they were giving her to 2 1/2. She does graze, but I've never seen her eat feed. They said she did.

I dewormed her (starting with Safeguard for tapes, then three days later Valbazen) and started her on cocci med from the day she came home. I don't think they did cocci prevention at all.

This morning, she won't take the bottle at all. Sigh.

I've given her a dose of CD Antitoxin (that is the emergency treatment, not the vaccine) and a tiny dose of Banamine.

I hate this.

andabigmac · #2 08/03/12, 08:56 AM

Since you are one of the ones I'd come to for advice, I don't have any. She is in good hands. Just wanted to say I'm praying she gets better fast! I can understand how much she means to you. Poor baby has had a rough week. Keep us up to date please.

Goat Servant · #3 08/03/12, 09:01 AM

Alice do you suppose it could be from the stress of moving?

fishhead · #4 08/03/12, 09:32 AM

Maybe a shot of thiamine to perk her appetite?

Alice In TX/MO · #5 08/03/12, 09:38 AM

I'm going to do that about noon.

I'm so gun shy now that I'm afraid to do too much at once.

suzyhomemaker09 · #6 08/03/12, 09:47 AM

Wouldn't it be more apt to say you don't like fostering out bottle kids as opposed to a blanket "I don't like bottle kids"?

Alice In TX/MO · #7 08/03/12, 09:55 AM

No. I've had trouble with bottle kids before. Yarrow knows.

I don't like raising bottle kids.

There's an invisible sign on my forehead. DOES NOT DO BOTTLE KIDS.

Hollowdweller · #8 08/03/12, 10:17 AM

My experience has been the exact opposite.

When the kids used to suck they picked up worms and other bugs from nursing. The does had a way higher incidence of mastitis from their orifices being open all day.

Also the dam and her kids of various ages would form "goat mafias" and rule the feeders keeping any goat not related out so all the kids related to the largest and most vicious goat families would get fat while maybe the better milker but from a smaller or more docile family would never get to full potential.

When you raised bottle babies did they stay in with the adult herd? I think it makes a big difference if the bottle kids are kept separate from the adults since generally the area where the adults stay is the most heavily contaminated. Adult goats have resitance to coccidia and worms but baby goats do not so it makes sense to keep them separate till their immune systems are more well developed.

suzyhomemaker09 · #9 08/03/12, 10:21 AM

I'm sorry you've had trouble with them Alice....

Cannon_Farms · #10 08/03/12, 10:23 AM

That's still a lot of milk. Will she eat at all? Id do the b12 and something to soothe her belly. Can you hear gut sounds. Could she be impacted

Alice In TX/MO · #11 08/03/12, 10:35 AM

Cannon, they are 20 oz Pepsi bottles, not the bigger 32 oz kid bottles. (She was getting one 20 oz bottle PM when I picked her up.) One AM, one PM, and if she didn't finish, I didn't push. About half a bottle at lunch, if she wanted it.

Seriously, I don't DO bottle kids successfully. Susie gave me two beautiful little Nubian bucklings years ago, and one died. This was early early in my goat career. I felt awful. Didn't know enough AT ALL. Didn't know about antitoxin, which (looking back) might have saved him.

The only bottling I've done is supplementing for Cassie's five bucklings two years ago, and supplementing for a one-teated doe I have with other issues. I make sure her kids get enough milk with bottles. Even with the quintuplets, the whole routine of bottles given X number of times a day, and in that situation, rotating around which kids were with mom, is just NOT my thing. Seriously.

Plus, due to family situations, I have to travel, sometimes on short notice. (I'm trying NOT to stress about the tropical system heading to my other home in Texas because that may cause travel and scheduling issues.) So, I don't want to over burden a substitute milker with bottle kids, too.

Whining and venting here.

Edited to add: She ate some oak leaves about 10:00 AM, and 8 oz of milk at 10:20. I'm going to not even offer any more milk till this evening.

CD Antitoxin question... do I repeat the dose daily?

yarrow · #12 08/03/12, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Cannon, they are 20 oz Pepsi bottles, not the bigger 32 oz kid bottles. One AM, one PM, and if she didn't finish, I didn't push. About half a bottle at lunch, if she wanted it.

I don't DO bottle kids successfully. Susie gave me two beautiful little Nubian bucklings years ago, and one died. This was early early in my goat career. I felt awful. Didn't know enough AT ALL. Didn't know about antitoxin, which (looking back) might have saved him.

The only bottling I've done is supplementing for Cassie's five bucklings two years ago, and supplementing for a one-teated doe I have with other issues. I make sure her kids get enough milk with bottles.

Due to family STUFF, I have to travel, sometimes on short notice. (I'm trying NOT to stress about the tropical system heading to my other home in Texas because that may cause travel and scheduling issues.) So, I don't want to over burden a substitute milker with bottle kids, too.

Whining and venting here.

Edited to add: She ate some oak leaves about 10:00 AM, and 8 oz of milk at 10:20. I'm going to not even offer any more milk till this evening.

CD Antitoxin question... do I repeat the dose daily?

Alice.... you *CAN* give her more Antitoxin... but what I'd try instead is small doses of banamine... about 30 mins or so.. BEFORE you try to feed her... I'm going to guess it's more likely a tummy ache then entro.....

here's what we do when we have a kid that suddenly refuses a bottle (with no other symptoms.. no fever, no snot, no cough, no scours .. just won't eat).. I give a couple cc's of B12 (I know most folks just keep B Complex, use it if that's what you have.. I then give a smidge of banamine 1/4 cc per 25lbs (BUT.. if you go a little over, they'll still be fine) a pinch of baking soda
..if they refuse the next bottle they get a dose of dimethox 40% incase it might be the start of cocci or a bacterial thing trying to start, the sulfa is good for getting all sorts of gut bugs.... if it's hot and they are older, I might even do some ringers under the skin to keep them *plumb & moist* .... if they are YOUNG (under 3 weeks) they ALWAYS get ringers (60 or so cc's under the skin, between the shoulders)...I begin to tube (4ounces every 3 hours or so) on a very young kid (under 2 weeks, you get fluids and tubed multiple times a day, until they begin to take the bottle again.. and I've tubed and given ringers to a kid for 2 wks straight..nice, nice little doe.. suddenly started taking her bottle, like nothing was ever wrong. grew into a big, healthy doe..never figured out what was going on with her.)...the key is staying on top of any episode of "I'm not hungry.. I don't want my bottle"..I don't ever want a tummy ache to lead to dehydration, which just sets them into all sorts of other issues and they tail spin downward...

(I read often online folks saying they have a kid that is *weaning it's self off the bottle" ???.. again.. not at my farm.. I've never had an older kid -who is feeling goof, say "no thanks, I don't want any more milk" If they were given the chance, I'd have a herd of adult does, still coming up for nightie.. night bottles LOL..

we have not lost a bottle kid (knock wood) in 5 years (ALL of our kids are pulled and raised on bottles, so the number of bottle kids each year is pretty high... I personally kept back, bottled & just weaned 14.. all on bottles- we don't own a lamb bar).... back before I became aggressive ANYTIME a kid didn't take a bottle and just take a wait and see... well that's when I would loose kids... now a days.. we always do something, depending on the situation, it might be a little something or a big something... but when they don't eat.. there is ALWAYS something off.. a goat kid is ALWAYS hungry... (((I use to use Antitoxin on the bottle kids back then too- anytime I got worried- ..but since we never let that first bottle slide without doing something... I've not even opened a bottle of antitoxin in the 3 years)))..
.. (but I buy a new one every year.. just so I've always got it)...

good luck ...deep breaths.. I know how much this whole bottle thing gets to you...

susie, mo ozarks

mekasmom · #13 08/03/12, 11:22 AM

Whoever raised her, before you, just didn't do it well. Who would only give a baby kid one bottle a day? That is just cruel to my way of thinking.
I'm sorry she won't eat for you better. I don't know if you could retrain her now or not. It's sad though.
I LOVE bottle babies. I love their friendliness and good nature. I like that they are larger than kids on the dam. I like that they are easier to handle from a young age on. But I wouldn't only give them one bottle a day either. That is just neglect.

mekasmom · #14 08/03/12, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yarrow

(I read often online folks saying they have a kid that is *weaning it's self off the bottle" ???

Most does that were bottle fed will still run to get the bottle when they are 5-6-7 years old. They never forget their bottle days. Marcy use to love to run get a bottle and try to sneak in some slurps from the kids. So did Nanny and other goats that we have had over the years. They love their bottles.
(I know that milk wasn't good for them at that age...... but..... well vanilla wafers aren't good for them either. But they like to have treats, and it has never hurt them.)

Alice In TX/MO · #15 08/03/12, 11:35 AM

Update.

11:30. I sneaked out and stood where I wouldn't set everyone off and watched. She's in the shade under the pine trees behind the goat shed, on the edge of the goat group. CHEWING HER CUD. Crisis averted. I hope. Whew.

Knock on wood.

I'm going to print out your post, Susie. THANK YOU!

punchiepal · #16 08/03/12, 02:08 PM

One of these days I need to keep track of when it happens but it there seems to be a time when their teeth bother them and they might slow down for a day or so but that's it. We didn't connect it till this year when we had 2 sets of kids born about 1 week apart from 2-3 different does (each set). One week it was the older group, the next week it was the younger group.
It does bother me, might try the b next year.

**mygoat** · #17 08/03/12, 02:32 PM

Are the cocci meds in the bottle? Once they get to a certain weight, they get quite a bit of cocci meds... and they HATE the taste. Our bottle kids refuse to drink our medicated milk on occassion.

Alice In TX/MO · #18 08/03/12, 02:36 PM

YES, it was in that morning bottle. I can change that.

yarrow · #19 08/03/12, 03:09 PM

I never put anything but milk into their bottles.. I always give the cocci med in a syringe (with a sweetie chaser)... but I do it well after they've taken their morning bottle.. I want them to have already eaten before I put yuck in their mouths..... (that the taste is never associated with feeding time/bottles)

susie, mo ozarks

Alice In TX/MO · #20 08/03/12, 04:14 PM

Thank you, folks! I feel like a DOOFUS, but this may be the issue. Poor goatie.