CAE and breeding?

mammabooh · #1 07/25/12, 09:02 PM

It was mentioned on another thread of mine that CAE wouldn't really be something to worry about if I was just taking my girls to get bred and bringing them right back home. Do you all agree with this? There is a Lamancha herd not 5 miles from here, but she doesn't test either. Her goats are registered and on standard milk test, in case that makes a difference.

**mygoat** · #2 07/25/12, 10:26 PM

CAE isn't something to worry about. There's bucketloads of (worse) things like CL and Johnes to worry about however.

Not to mention other communicable diseases - sore mouth, chlamydia, and brucella come to mind.

Talk to the herds and ask them about herd health. If they're at all concious about heard health, they'll want to pick your brain before you bring over any of your does to their precious bucks.

If you use outside bucks, I'd personally *never* board them over there unless I knew and trusted the herd extensively. I'd do the classy driveway breedings and call it good. Let a buck cover a doe a couple times then take them home.

Ranger · #3 07/26/12, 05:07 AM

I would NEVER breed one of my girls to an untested buck. While CAE is usually transmitted through milk, it can certainly be transmitted through blood. No, you don't normally get bleeding from breeding, but there is always a chance of it. I also feel that CAE is a huge deal, and won't take any chance of getting it in my herd.

mammabooh · #4 07/26/12, 05:28 AM

Wow...those are two differing opinions, huh!?!?!?

wmsff · #5 07/26/12, 05:58 AM

After doing some research, I've found even vets differ on wether it can be transmitted via breeding. Most just won't risk it.

Im going to mini manchas and Moonspinner sold me an awesome ND buck. I hope to have babies soon!

Hollowdweller · #6 07/26/12, 09:22 AM

Anytime you use outside service there is always a chance of disease.

CAE is associated with white blood cells and generally unless the buck has some sort of injury the chance of transimission is low.

As others have said there is more of a chance of some other transmission than CAE.

That said if you buy a buck, or any more goats, or show, or have your goats around any other goats there is a risk.

I find the attitude of some toward CAE funny. I've known herds that tested for CAE and were very meticulous about it yet they allowed the kids to suck the dams.

There are a LOT of diseases that can be transmitted from dam to daughter via nursing other than CAE but they think just because their herd is CAE negative that somehow they can let the kids suck.

Raising and breeding goats requires some degree of risk. If I hauled my doe to a buck and he had no obvious signs of disease and the herd looked OK I would have no problem hand breeding my does to him. I would not want to pen my doe with a buck I didn't know anything about though.

andabigmac · #7 07/26/12, 09:53 AM

Here's a question. Why can CAE spread through milk and bodily fluids but supposedly not sperm?

Hollowdweller · #8 07/26/12, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andabigmac

Here's a question. Why can CAE spread through milk and bodily fluids but supposedly not sperm?

It CAN. Just not as easily because there are less white blood cells.

The main way is thru the colostrum. In adults they say milking machines and milking.

If you are doing CAE prevention you should always feed the kids FIRST before you milk the herd so you don't run the risk of them licking your milk covered hands.

billooo2 · #9 07/26/12, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andabigmac

Here's a question. Why can CAE spread through milk and bodily fluids but supposedly not sperm?

In my conversations with Washington State Lab (WADDL), they told me that they have never seen an incident of CAE being transmitted via breeding. They also said that they have never found the virus in either saliva or nasal secretions.

The people that I talked with there said that they are pretty much convinved that any "horiizontal" transmission in a herd is the result of it happening by humans and carelessness with milk, needles, etc.

billooo2 · #10 07/26/12, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollowdweller

I find the attitude of some toward CAE funny. I've known herds that tested for CAE and were very meticulous about it yet they allowed the kids to suck the dams.

.

Just wondering.......if the dam is negative for CAE why would you consider it to be risky behavior to let the kids nurse on a negative dam???

wmsff · #11 07/27/12, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmsff

After doing some research, I've found even vets differ on wether it can be transmitted via breeding. Most just won't risk it.

Im going to mini manchas and Moonspinner sold me an awesome ND buck. I hope to have babies soon!

Wow! I wiped out the entire middle part. This post was weird.

I had written that my two goats tested positive when I was going to have them bred by a stud at Moonspinner. I tried to find something and ended up at a place with tons of NDs. He was going to sell me a cute tricolored, blue eyed buck for $100. But he had to excise the CL lump first!
Yikes. I said no.
My MIL flipped about the CAE, saying aids spread to humans ! I ended up selling them and getting very nice, clean (tested) does from a wonderful woman only 30 minutes from me.
Moonspinner sold me a nice buck.

Well there is the middle. Now the rest makes sense ! Sorry for sounding like an idiot!
There is a reason for the preview button! Somehow I didn't use it that time!
Hahaha

mammabooh · #12 07/27/12, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmsff

Wow! I wiped out the entire middle part. This post was weird.

I had written that my two goats tested positive when I was going to have them bred by a stud at Moonspinner. I tried to find something and ended up at a place with tons of NDs. He was going to sell me a cute tricolored, blue eyed buck for $100. But he had to excise the CL lump first!
Yikes. I said no.
My MIL flipped about the CAE, saying aids spread to humans ! I ended up selling them and getting very nice, clean (tested) does from a wonderful woman only 30 minutes from me.
Moonspinner sold me a nice buck.

Well there is the middle. Now the rest makes sense ! Sorry for sounding like an idiot!
There is a reason for the preview button! Somehow I didn't use it that time!
Hahaha

Ha! I THOUGHT that sounded sort of disjointed when I read it.

TriWinkle · #13 07/27/12, 08:46 AM

Good info...learning a lot...thanks everyone.

KrisD · #14 07/27/12, 09:49 AM

I also would not worry about CAE from a driveway breeding. Even other diseases would be rare to pick up in a 5 minute date unless the buck had an oozing CL lump. If i saw signs of CL at all i would not even get out of the car. Under no circumstances would I board my does there or board the bucks without knowing ALL the disease status. I do driveway breedings all the time. What I did was first locate a farm that does buck service then after asking some questions go visit the farm and check them out. Does everyone look healthy? No swollen lumps or bumps? Everyone is well fleshed, no one acts weird. If everything "looks" good then arrange for the driveway date.

ozark_jewels · #15 07/30/12, 04:06 PM

I stud my bucks out and do not worry about him getting CAE from an outside doe while breeding. I would also not be worried about a doe of mine getting CAE by being bred to an outside buck.
In my goat-owning life, I have had many CAE positive goats. Have had CAE does bred by negative bucks. Bucks stayed negative.
Have had CAE bucks breed negative does. Does stayed negative.

I would be much more worried about CL. Possibly Johnnes.

If you go and ask them about breeding, they should ask you about your herd-health. Thats a good sign, that they care.

I grill the folks who want to do driveway breedings with my bucks. And after talking diseases over with them, I still reserve the right to look the doe over as she arrives and turn them away if I see something suspicious.

But no, I wouldn't be worried about CAE. But I also wouldn't board a doe at a strangers place! Driveway breedings only.

I sometimes board does for folks with no bucks who cannot tell when their doe is in heat, and live too far away to make the journey often. But I am VERY selective about the does I board.

Hollowdweller · #16 07/30/12, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billooo2

Just wondering.......if the dam is negative for CAE why would you consider it to be risky behavior to let the kids nurse on a negative dam???

Some forms of mastitis, mycoplasma, coccidia etc can be spred from dam to kid via nursing. A kid could even get CL from an abcess in the mammary.