Nigerians or Nubians

2kidsdad · #1 07/19/12, 08:23 PM

I'm looking to add a couple of goats to our place and have narrowed the search to nubians or Nigerians and need a little help deciding between the two. "It'd my understanding" (as I don't know from experience) that Nigerians require less feed (is it enough to matter), produce a higher butterfat milk (again, is it enough to matter), produce less milk (what would be a comparison, 16oz for Nigerian quart for nubian)?) and Nigerians are spunky with a lot of personality. My plan is to milk them for milk to drink, butter, cheese, cream? Part of the thought is that if your gona milk you would want enough milk to make it worth while. Also a male Nubian will produce more meat. I haven't had goats before, your thought / suggestions would be appreciated. Also, is one an easier keep / better mother?

silverseeds · #2 07/19/12, 08:37 PM

Are you talking about getting full sized nubians? Or mini sized? (which are nubians crossed to nigerian dwarfs)

This makes a big difference.

I couldnt give you exact numbers here myself, but I had two fullsized goats (a nubian and a boer cross of some type) and they ate more then my current "herd" of 6. which are 3 nubian minis and 3 nigerian dwarfs. the nigerians are much smaller and eat much less then the minis.

a full sized nubian of good lineages locally seem to get around a gallon a day according to the adds people post. Mine gave less then that before I got rid of her.

Locally it seems like most minis give somewhere around a half a gallon, and they sure seem to eat less then half the feed. I like dealing with them better then full sized goats personally as well.

Nigerians dwarfs seem to give from 16 ounces all the way up to half a gallon!!! With a quart seeming to be your average stock I find locally according to ads.

Ultimately, yes it does make a difference. the smaller animals IF you have good lines are more efficient. usually you will pay more for them upfront though. Myself?? im working on moving into mainly the high high end of the nigerian dwarfs. I have some lined up that Im told do produce the top end of their range, a half gallon. These will set me back 300 ea. The 3 ngerian does i have now produce around 22-32 ounces a day, and i paid 50-65 for those.

one thing I would say is if you decide to go with the nigerian dwarfs, especially if you dont want to pay for the better lines, make very sure they dont have tiny teats. My nigerians girls arent from milk lines, and their teats are really hard to milk. they are smaller then the last section of my pinky. Ive seen the milking lines of the breed, and they are certainly smaller then larger breeds, but they were easy to milk, and had adequate teat size.

Sorry I couldnt be more definitive. Im not sure the exact stats on sizes vs how much they eat, but like I said my two full sized goats ate more then my 3 mini sized and 3 dwarf sized ones do now. I get more milk as well.

Wags · #3 07/19/12, 08:45 PM

Guess it all boils down to how much milk you think you will need.

Nigerians run 6-10% butterfat. My Nigerians does have consistently been right in the middle of that range. The higher butterfat translates into a higher cheese yield and the ability to make butter by just shaking up a jar of whole milk. My does usually peak in the 4-5lb (1/2 gallon) range per day. They come into season year round so you can stagger breedings to keep yourself in milk. A 1/2 gallon a day may not seem like much until you realize that is over 3 gallons a week. I frequently run out of space in the fridge especially when I have several does in milk.

Their feed and space requirements are about half what a Nubian requires. Their small size makes them easy to handle (usually under 75lbs) and easy to transport (lrg or xl dog crate) which is a plus in my book. If they aren't in a mood to cooperate I can just pick them up and move them.

Hurts less when they stomp on her toes too!

One caution with Nigerians, there are people that breed them just for pets. Avoid buying from anyone who doesn't milk their goats and can't tell you production numbers. Nigerians shouldn't have raisin sized teats, and give only a cup or two a day.

This is one of my does as a first freshener:
Nigerians or Nubians - Goats

silverseeds · #4 07/19/12, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wags

If they aren't in a mood to cooperate I can just pick them up and move them.

So true!!!

Cannon_Farms · #5 07/19/12, 08:53 PM

so why do you like lets say chocolate ice cream and I like vanilla? There are people very dedicated to their breed. I have had both so Ill pitch in why I went with nubians.

Personality. Like most short folks (im 5ft tall so I can say that) the nigerians have a strong personality and to me are the most "you are the human serve me now" like cats I guess. Some are sweet but most can be arrogant little turds. Ive had a herd of 20 and have been a frequent visitor to one of the top Nigerian breeders. I love their personality but a little to bratty for me on a daily basis.
Nubians, yea they can be a bit stubborn but my girls are very sweet, they come up and will lay their heads on my chest wanting rubbings, will come when called and attempt to obey.
Maintenance, well you would think being short would make short goats being easy but in fact getting under them to milk, then the hoof trimmings and holding for dewormings was just to much on my back. My big girls are easier for me to handle all together.
In the bucket, I had some very nicely bred nigerians and high producers however I could still milk one nubian to two nigerians for the same quantity, considering I have CPS in both wrist that was what let me to sell out the nigerians and buy Nubians.

Nigerians are slower to mature to eating age as well. Its very expensive to make butter and not really considered worth while with any breed. Cheese is easy as well.
When you have a doe in milk you need to make sure you can commit, its a huge vacation or time away from home killer, you cant call out sick either. Most of my customers are former goat owners who couldnt make the time commitment. Theres days like these two past ones that I feel I could sell out and never look back, but then tomorrow they will do something to make me fall in love with them all over again, still I would love to go to the beach again... one day

mammabooh · #6 07/19/12, 08:59 PM

Are you trying to decide between those two breeds because that is what is available in your area? If at all possible, I would suggest that you find Lamanchas. They might look goofy, but they are quiet, sturdy, and give yummy milk. Did I mention that they are quiet? That's a biggie for me.

LoneStrChic23 · #7 07/19/12, 09:53 PM

I'd go visit breeders, milk does & then decide. If you're wanting milk, try to milk the doe 1st. You don't want a doe with tiny teats, small orfices, poor teat placement/deliniation, poor udder attachments, beefy udder..... You're going to be stuck milking a bunch, so make sure it's a comfy fit. If buying a doeling or dry doe, try to see her dams udder, as well as the sire's dam's udder...

I had Nubians ages ago & hated them. Loud mouthed, whiny babies, horribly annoying.... Bought another one because my daughter wanted it for her 7th bday.... Kept thinking I made a HUGE mistake, but this doeling is sweet as can be, very mellow & is my quietest goat. She's a doll!

Alpines were my main breed...... I've always had them. They have attitude, and sometimes they get this "I'm a God" complex, but I enjoy their independent personalities & my gosh they can put it in the bucket

Mine aren't needy, very sweet, and I have never had one that milked less than a gallon per day....

Added Lamanchas & never thought I'd have a breed I liked as much as the Alpines, but I simply adore these earless goats. Very hardy, easy keepers, calm disposition. Higher butterfat than my Alpines, with good production...... We haven't butchered one yet, but they seem to carry a bit more meat on their frames than my Alpines (of course that also depends on the lines as Lamanchas are a very diverse breed thanks to their open herd book)

I'm not crazy about Nigerians.... They are cute, and I've seen some impressive milkers out there too, but I can wash one Alpine udder, trim one set of Alpine hooves for the same amount of milk I can get from 2-3 Nigerians. My back doesn't enjoy the long bend down, nor do I like the short distance from udder to milk pail..... I prefer the longer legs of the standard breeds.... Another thing, there are some breeders out there who I would LOVE to own stock from, but in my area, I've found that the type of Nigerian I'd like to own is WAY out of my price range.... They are easy keepers though, and there is that nice aspect of bring able to pick them up or tote them in a car if needed.... Lots of colors to choose from, and when my mom had them she never had a problem selling the kids.....

Had mini Alpines for a while.... Good milkers, easy keepers, but for me, in addition to still prefering longer legs to milk under (thoufh they were easier to milk than the ND), I couldn't get good prices for the kids as most saw them as mutts even though they were 3rd+ generation, registered stock...... I have to have my kid sale $$ for feed, or I simply can't have goats...... With the minis, I had to put in a few months of work, coccidia meds & feed ($$$$) to get the same prices I ask for my standard breed kids at 1-3 weeks old.....

As far as butchering...... We eat any breed

We prefer to butcher around 4-6 months old, and found that even our minis dressed out well at that age as long as we let them stay on milk until butcher time (last ones we did had been weaned for about 2 weeks)....

I'd look for breeders with tested CAE free herds who actually milk their goats & go talk to them. Another thing, you might consider other breeds if you find a good breeder near by to get stock from..... In that case you could get a couple does to start with & just have the breeder breed them for you & you can go a year without having to invest in a buck

silverseeds · #8 07/19/12, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

Had mini Alpines for a while.... Good milkers, easy keepers,

Do you remember how much they produced??

Im personally thinking about scoring a few top end nigerians to get a herd of those going..

But I was also thinking of finding the best full sized producers I could and starting my own mutt herd of mini alpines, lamanchas, nubians and whatever other milking breed I can find... My current mini nubians came from nigerians producing a quart and nubians producing a gallon, so Id think with nigerians producing half a gallon I could beat that...

LoneStrChic23 · #9 07/19/12, 11:08 PM

Yep......Tootsie, as a FF peaked at 7.2lbs & held in that area for about 2 weeks, then leveled off at right at 6lbs. This year she is a 2nd freshener & peaked at 8.5lbs, & had been holding steady at 7lbs...... My mom took over the minis, loved their smaller size..... After she passed, Tootsie went to a friend & dropped off severely to about 4lbs a day..... She's back up to 6.5lbs a day right now..... The stress of the move, combined with poor care before the move dropped her production (my moms brother took care of her for 2 weeks after mom passed..... Frequently forgot to feed her, provide clean water & skipped milkings whenever he felt like...... So given that, I'm surprised she's up to 6 5lbs!)....

She's a well bred, 3rd generation doe....... Both breeds behind her being from milking lines, so that helps a bunch. If I were to start my own line of minis, I'd be sure my foundation was the very best I could afford.

Sonshine · #10 07/19/12, 11:13 PM

I've only had African Pygmies, which I didn't do anything with and eventually sold, and my ND's, which I bought from cannon farms. So I can't talk about any other breed. We've been more than happy with our ND's. They are small enough that I can easily handle them with my back issues. They have wonderful personalities and mine are easy to milk. The milk is nice and creamy and makes great cheese. I haven't really tried making butter with it though. I don't mind the smaller teats since I have very small hands (my wedding band is a size 3), so the smaller teats are actually easier for me to deal with.

Laverne · #11 07/20/12, 12:44 AM

I really like the LaManchas. One is milking over 2 years the other over 3 years. About 3 quarts a day, all winter long, year round milk, no kids to mess around with plus the loss of milk, no butchering since I don't have the guts for that. I plan on milking them for years non stop. You wouldn't believe all the hard cheese I've made with these goats, it's insane.

KrisD · #12 07/20/12, 12:47 AM

I've had Nubians and didn't like them at all. I hated how noisy they were. I now have Saanens, Oberhaslis, and Nigerian. I love my Nigerian, the easy personality, small size, ease of selling kids, and generally more kids per kidding then standard breeds. I will probably faze out the Obers abut keep the Saanens and the Nigerians. My Nigie doe gives a QT a day which is average but the other benefits far outweigh the smaller mount of milk. She does eat half the amount of he others as well. I'm keeping he Saanens because I love the personality,they are the sweetest and easiest to deal with of all the goats I've had and I've had many different breeds.

andabigmac · #13 07/20/12, 07:52 AM

I have 10 nubians and some nubian crosses. Only two ever make a peep. I bought one this year who I was ready to kill. She has calmed down and only screams now when I'm really late milking. The other is Ali who is a bottle baby and she only cries when it's close to bottle time and even that has calmed down. I don't know if it's different lines that make noisy nubians but honestly my noisiest goat is my boer doe. The rest are so quiet that if they make noise I get up to see what's wrong.
My nubians give the sweetest milk and have the funniest personalities. As for the stepping on your foot thing I think they're comparable pain-wise. I assume a 4 or 5 month old nubian is about the same size as an ND just with longer legs. My babies hurt worse to me than the big girls when I get stepped on. I don't know if its the small hooves or what but they seem to dig in better. I only have one nubian that I have problems moving and its not that she won't move its that she wants to take the long route that she chooses.
Keep in mind that every goat is different and has a unique personality. There are rotten, mean nubians and rotten, mean ND's. Just like there are sweet ones. Don't buy the first goat you see. Taste the milk. Milk her out to make sure you would be able to handle it. Small orifices are worse than small teats to me.
The fairs are starting to begin every where. Go talk to breeders and look at your options. Spend time watching their personalities. See what you fall in love with. I would love having a few NDs but I'm determined to get some Lamanchas too. Every goat has its pros and cons. I'm definitely smitten with my nubians though.

mrs.H · #14 07/20/12, 08:20 AM

The reason I'm getting out of ND's is I can't get a bucket under them. I have a 2 quart pail that does not fit under my doe. Nor did it fit under my fist ND doe. My 6 quart pail fits perfectly under my Alpine.

LoneStrChic23 · #15 07/20/12, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrs.H

The reason I'm getting out of ND's is I can't get a bucket under them. I have a 2 quart pail that does not fit under my doe. Nor did it fit under my fist ND doe. My 6 quart pail fits perfectly under my Alpine.

That is my biggest issue with the smaller breeds...... When I'm milking for the bottle babies, I milk into a 2 gallon pail, when I'm keeping a bit for the house I like to milk into 1/2 gallon jars that I can put a lid on so it doesn't get dusty on the way back to the house (no milk room, and my barn isn't close)........ Can't fit either of those under the shorter breeds.... When I had to milk the mini's, I had to milk into a smaller container, then pour, into my bigger jars or pail as it got full....

Now, lots of minis really have almost full sized bodies, and only their shorter cannon bones make them "mini"...... Tootsie is like that...... My mom managed what I consider a true mini..... An exact replica of the standard breed, just smaller.... Proportional legs instead of shortened cannon bones.... This was in her 4th generation kids & in one 4th generation doe from another breeder.....Left a lot more room under the doe than the NDs have, or even what Tootsie had.... A friend took all of mom's higher generation does & I am eager to hear how they do when they freshen (friend wants the smaller size with longer legs too)...

As to breeds, each one has something negative attached to it.....ND's are too small & all have tiny teats, Nubians too loud, Toggs have nasty milk, Alpines are too mean & pushy, Lamanchas always have ear trouble, Saanens have no butterfat & always sunburn..... The list goes on & on..... Most of the hoop la isn't even true, and within breeds there are individuals who don't fit any of the stereotype for their breed. So keep your options open, visit as many farms as possible, and even if you just stick to your 2 choices, visit several Nubian breeders & several Nigerian breeders before making your choice.

Pony · #16 07/20/12, 02:14 PM

I prefer Nubians. They are a size I can handle, they're easier for me to milk (nice big teats and long legs), and they have lovely personalities.

Pretty low maintenance, pretty to look at, and there's a nice butterfat ratio.

If I were to go with Nigerians, I'd insist on buying stock from Wags. But I can't do little bitty goats - that is ME, MY personal preference.

Make sure you get healthy, tested stock. Make sure you like the flavor of the milk. Make sure you are willing to commit to them.

And then have fun. We're all here to enable you in growing a herd of whatever delightful goats you choose.

nzw tom · #17 07/20/12, 02:43 PM

I don't milk, but I have a nubian x boer that is a sweetheart. She makes very little noise. She is a trouble maker with the other goats. Never does anything wrong, just likes to stir up playtime! Just love Bee. Love those hugh ears.

My Boer buck is a big mouthed puppy.

I also have a Lamancha cross (doeling). She is really growing on me. She is shy, but that is because the guy I bought her from never handled her. The ear nubs are growing on me.
I know this does not help you alot, because I don't milk, but I thought I would tell you a little about my goats.

Tom

April · #18 07/20/12, 03:44 PM

It might be better to make your decision not based on breed, but based on individual goats. Milk flavor, attitude (which counts for more than you think), behavior, loudness - all of that means a lot more than the pedigree behind the animal. Get out there and meet a few, milk a few, hug a few - you'll undoubtedly fall in love!

mabeane · #19 07/20/12, 06:43 PM

Oh, I love my NDs. Easy on this older lady to manage, milk and feed. The flavor of the milk is "to die for".

wintrrwolf · #20 07/20/12, 10:12 PM

I am rofl...
MY nubians are not any noisier then any of the other breeds I have had...nigi's, saanen's, mix of the two, alpine oh and a kinder. In fact my nigi and nigi halfbreeds get into more trouble and have instigated more breakouts and chicken feed raids then my nubs could even think of!!
My 2 nubian doelings Pebbles and Pearl have become Candy's babysitter while MOM goes and breaks out of jail!! Mom is an f1 mini saanen, Candy is an f2 mini saanen and expect she is going to be just as troublesome as her momma.
My nubians yes maaa at me when I go out there, a few scratches and they quiet down, and yes I suppose nigi's are suppose to eat less LOL someone forgot to memo them that info, if they can they WILL find a way to GET to more food. But they are soooo cute and their babies are so easy to sell cause they are even cuter. After milking a saanen (gallon plus a day) milking a nigi is disappointing.
There are many opinions from allot of us on preferences and I will say mine is nubians.