Percentage Boer Registration Questions

CircleStarRanch · #1 07/16/12, 12:34 PM

Greets all

I am back with more questions, as we are getting close to our potential move. The property we want is in "counter-offer" mode - we should know this week! We are hoping to move late summer/early fall, which gives us time to prepare for the "coming of the herd" in the spring. What we decided on is a Boer buck & buck-buddy whether, and 2 Nubian does. Having our own buck will keep us more self-reliant. This should meet our dairy needs and meat needs (from the Boer/Nubian off-spring). We are not looking to go into the "goat business", just trying to be self-reliant and eat healthy.

Now for my questions. #1.How many kids can I reasonably expect to get from 2 Nubians does bred to a Boer buck in a year? We would like to think that we could produce just enough meat for the 2 of us. But this leads to question #2: If we do need to look at selling excess Boer X Nubian doelings, should the Boer buck we get be registered - so we can sell the does registered as 50%? Question 2B; if we want to sell 50% Boer does, does the Nubian mother need to be registered as well?

I am trying to keep this simple as possible and keep costs down. The gist of this is how difficult would be be to sell excess non-registered 50% Boer doelings vs. registered? Or do we concentrate on the eithnic markets for the excess? We do have large hispanic and middle-eastern populations.

Thanks in advance,
-Dutch

mpete · #2 07/16/12, 01:21 PM

Hi.
How many kids a doe has will depend on her... but usually twins are normal. The doe does not have to be registered to register the doelings as percentage does. If you stagger the breedings of your does, then you will always have 1 in milk.
As for registered vs non-registered? Well, if you are going to sell to the market, papers make no difference. Doelings get eaten just as well as bucklings. Registeries will however add cost to you....
But now I have a question for you: Is your set up going to be that you can not have the buck pen close to the does? The reason I ask is because feeding a wether will add to your cost. When I had just 1 buck, he did fine being in a pen next to the does. Not saying that will work for everyone, but it did work for me.
Not trying to deterr you with the "cost to you" remarks, but just letting you have all the info so you can choose what works for you.
and CONGRATS ON YOUR ALMOST NEW PLACE!!!! Can't wait to see the pics!

CircleStarRanch · #3 07/16/12, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpete

Is your set up going to be that you can not have the buck pen close to the does? The reason I ask is because feeding a wether will add to your cost. When I had just 1 buck, he did fine being in a pen next to the does.

Both pens will be 70' x 100' with a shared 70' fence. I had asked about that a while back... was under the impression the Buck needs his "own" buddy not just the girls on the other side of the fence.

-Dutch

Ford Zoo · #4 07/16/12, 05:07 PM

To my understanding, to get the boer buck registered with the ABGA, both parents will have to be registered, then he will only be registered as the percentage of his parents. I may be wrong, but I think the ABGA may not register offspring if the buck is only "50%" or if the doe is not registered or another breed. Considering that and the fact that yearly membership fees are required to get a boer registered, their is cost to keep papering goats. I do belive the IBGA will register a doe that appears to be boer as NOA (Native on appearance), then that group will register the offspring of a registered buck and the NOA doe. Their yearly fees are cheaper too.

Investigate both groups well so you can decide what is best for you. Commercial (unregistered) goats can have the genetics to grow out well, and from what I've been reading your Nubian/Boer crosses should give you a lot of meat!

Sending good wishes for a quick closing for you!

**mygoat** · #5 07/16/12, 05:26 PM

To register with any boer registry, the sire MUST be fullblood or purebred. Purebred means a buck is 97% or higher (purebred does are 94% or higher), fullblood means there is no outcrossing done.

A purebred/fullblood boer buck bred to any other goat will result in kids at LEAST 50% boer. If the doe is a registered boer, her percentage will depend on what her kids can be registered at. A 50% doe bred to a fullblood/purebred buck will result in 75% kids.

Offspring out of a registered purebred/fullblood boer doe bred to any other breed are unregisterable. The sire MUST be a registered boer to register kids as boer crosses. If you bred these kids to a fullblood boer buck, the kids would be registered at 50%, not 75%. Sometimes you'll see ads for boer kids with wording like "Registered at 50%, actually 75%". I have some that are like that - one of my 50% boer does is the result of a myotonic buck breaking into a pen with fullblood/purebred boer does. She isn't registered and her kids are actually 75% boer, but are only registrable at 50%, no higher.

Watch what registry you buy from - you can register ABGA animals with USBGA, but you cannot register USBGA animals with the ABGA anymore - they closed their herdbooks. I find more people want ABGA registered boers, and I can only afford to be part of one registry, so mine are registered with the ABGA.

copperpennykids · #6 07/16/12, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford Zoo

To my understanding, to get the boer buck registered with the ABGA, both parents will have to be registered, then he will only be registered as the percentage of his parents. I may be wrong, but I think the ABGA may not register offspring if the buck is only "50%" or if the doe is not registered or another breed. Considering that and the fact that yearly membership fees are required to get a boer registered, their is cost to keep papering goats. I do belive the IBGA will register a doe that appears to be boer as NOA (Native on appearance), then that group will register the offspring of a registered buck and the NOA doe. Their yearly fees are cheaper too.

Investigate both groups well so you can decide what is best for you. Commercial (unregistered) goats can have the genetics to grow out well, and from what I've been reading your Nubian/Boer crosses should give you a lot of meat!

Sending good wishes for a quick closing for you!

Boer Bucks need to be registered in order to register offspring. The Nubian doe does not need to be registered with ADGA in order to register kids at 50%. None of the Boer goat registries register dairy goats AS dairy goats in their registries.

Boer does that are not registered (whether they are Fullbloods or a Percentage) have to start at 0% and then breed up to Purebred.

USBGA is an excellent registry, very "user friendly" and both the IBGA and USBGA have a "Native on Appearance" program, similar to ADGAs NOA program.

You can generally sell registered stock for more money than non-registered stock, so that should help justify the higher price for the registered stock. Plus you can see the genetics etc of the animals you are using.

Good luck with your new place and Congrats!

**mygoat** · #7 07/16/12, 08:16 PM

Yes, I should mention that the USBGA is a perfectly good registry - most of mine are dual registered with USBGA and they are very great to work with! But, it is worth mentioning just in case you have ABGA boer does and breed them to a USBGA boer buck - the offspring are not registrable at ABGA at that point. It's worth mentioning. If I maintain ABGA stock, buyers can still register them USBGA, but not vice versa. Boer associations are pricier than dairy associations, so I can only afford one.

ozark_jewels · #8 07/17/12, 10:09 AM

Triplets and quads are somewhat genetic, but mostly depends on the does level of nutrition at breeding. You shouldn't get singles from mature does, unless their nutrition is lacking. So you can plan on getting at least twins from each doe, possibly more. Twins and triplets are my favorites. Singles are too few, and quads too many. Unless you plan on bottle feeding everyone.

If you mainly want kids for meat, you can always eat the doelings too. Nothing wrong with that.

As for papered vs non-papered on your Boer sire? That would likely depend on your market, in your area. If you intend to sell the doe kids at market, don't get papers. If by some small chance there is a huge Boer breeding stock market in your area(not likely for 50% kids), then a registered Boer buck might be worth it.
Also, can you find a *quality* Boer buck in your price range in your area? Papered usually means more money, but not always higher quality or better kids. Some breeders sell everything if it has papers. The good breeders sell the BEST and eat the rest.
I'd reccomend seeing what type of Boer bucks you can find in your area. If you can get a *good* non-papered buck for a lot less than a papered buck of the same quality, I'd go for it.
With as few doelings as you are likely to sell, I really don't see a papered buck being something you need. But if you find a good one you can afford, why not?
See what you can find.

CircleStarRanch · #9 07/17/12, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

Also, can you find a *quality* Boer buck in your price range in your area? Papered usually means more money, but not always higher quality or better kids. Some breeders sell everything if it has papers. The good breeders sell the BEST and eat the rest.
I'd reccomend seeing what type of Boer bucks you can find in your area. If you can get a *good* non-papered buck for a lot less than a papered buck of the same quality, I'd go for it. ... See what you can find.

I have been in contact with a local Boer breeder. He has registered Boers and commercial fullbloods. He told me the difference is price if I want one that is papered I'm looking at $300 and one that is not is $80 - $150 depending on the size when I pick him up. Because of the big price difference, that is what prompted my question in the first place

I was only asking about registration to keep my selling options open for any excess kids - but it doesn't really seem to be worth the additional initial cost plus the yearly membership cost in which-ever registry. The same goes for the Nubians - I don't see me needing registered does.

An additional question now.... Do 4H'ers only show registered goats? Would an unregistered 50% Boer doe be something they might want?

You "guys" are great! Thanks for the help!
-Dutch

Ford Zoo · #10 07/17/12, 12:22 PM

The whole registry thing is confusing with each group having their own rules! I mentioned the IBGA, but I was thinking USBGA. And somewhere along the line I thought I had read that they were the same, either name change or combined.

See, I can't keep it straight

ozark_jewels · #11 07/17/12, 04:45 PM

If you are going to breed your Nubians to a Boer buck, absolutely no need to buy registered Nubians. Nothing with Boer blood can be registered with ADGA, and USBGA or ABGA do not require the dam to be registered, as long as the sire is. So no point to registered Nubians if you plan on breeding Boer.
But you still want does with good conformation and good udders. These factors contribute to the longevity and productivity of the doe.
I do not believe that 4-Hers here need registered stock. I could be wrong. Better check with your local 4-H.
As long as the goats quoted to you are good quality, I don't see why one of those commercial bucks wouldn't fit your bill nicely.