showing, is this the norm?

dbarjacres · #1 06/16/12, 02:40 PM

Ok, so I stopped for a look-see at my second goat show ever this weekend. I was horrified by what i saw! So many of the standard dairy girls were so uddered up they had milk streaming out of them (like I saw at least 15+ does like this and this is a smaller show) as they walked around the ring and thru the isles. Another doe coughed and milk just poured out of her teats. Seriously, is this normal for all this milk to be streaming all over the place!? I would NEVER EVER consider showing if that's normal. I actually went to find out more about showing. This one milk stand had spilled milk everywhere. One ND breeder who's website says her goats are tested, dropped her goats off last nite and left them for other people to show, people that don't test, and those does where where all the milk mess was. I heard from 2 people 2 yrs ago that there were open abcesses at this same show.

The other show I went to was 2 hrs away from me, about 4 yrs ago, unclipped goats, overgrown hooves, poorly looking. I watched the ring about 5 minutes and a lady threw a lamancha into my hand and said, help me, please take her in as I've got 3 in this class. Uh, ok. I got into the ring and saw she had abcess scars on her. ewwwww.... I went out to my car and used lots of sanitizer.

I was very disappointed.

Alice In TX/MO · #2 06/16/12, 02:50 PM

We went to the goat show at West Plains, Missouri, a few years ago, and yes, it was like that. We don't go any more.

Donna1982 · #3 06/16/12, 02:58 PM

Most shows do not allow you milk out before a show. If your goatis leaking milk you can milk some of the pressure out. The whole purpose of showing is to compare yours to another and better the herd. Most people who are showing do not let their goats go long with full udders. Most I know and have shown with milk around the same time at night that they will show the next day. Then I know of some who don't milk for 19 hours before a show to get that huge udder going. This is something a good breeder would NEVER do because it wrecks the udder and there goes your doe. As far as the milk everywhere things happen maybe it dumped over and they haven't had a chance to clean it up. We show, my mom shows and I know walking in I could pick something up. Hope it never happens but its a chance I feel I have to take to know i am producing only the best goats that fit closely to their standard. I wouldn't how ever bring my girls to a show that is known for sickness in the past. I am sorry you had a bad time, I promise not all shows are that horrible.

luvzmybabz · #4 06/17/12, 01:13 AM

A lot of shows here will penelize for overuddering going over time to show a whopper of an udder. It is 1 in the morning and I just got back in from milking out the doe that kidded last night. Miked out after he got his initial colostrum. milked out this AM have been watching him nurse both sides today but obviously was favoring one side as I went out to check goat in possible labor and BAM she was strutted so in I come for a jar and emtpy her. I refusse to ruin a Goat with great FF teats no matter what time I have to milk. Her teats are so so easy to milk......But I am regressing the only show I have been to had one of the large well known nubian breeders, in the area, bring a goat into the ring with LARGE pimples type sores on her udder heard her explaining to judge just came up that day after they shaved the night before so it must have been hairs or razor burn, goat had nice conformation but was placed at the back of the line as they were leaving the ring the judge told the parent that he had been in goats for too many years to not know they had been there a while ( they all had nice large whigteheads on them) I figure this is why she ended up at the back of the line with the does that were so overbagged that they were beet red!!!

chamoisee · #5 06/17/12, 01:22 AM

Using Nair on the udder instead of shaving can raise a nasty, pimply rash.

mrs.H · #6 06/17/12, 06:11 AM

Having nursed three children, I can assure you that being "uddered up" hurts!

wolffeathers · #7 06/17/12, 08:55 AM

My first goat show attending.

Some of the standard girls even had teat tape wrapped so tight the end of the teats, there teats were BLUE to keep them from streaming milk. Over-uddering is bad enough, but wrapping teats in tape to lock the milk in? Absolutely ridiculous. I too was appalled!

A friend of mine was showing her Nigerian Dwarfs there and explained that people are suppose to be penalized for over-uddering, but it doesn't happen. She said she learned the hardway one year trying to be friendly and mentioning to a standard breeder that one of their does were overuddered and the breeder had a fit. Friend said it's why she wouldn't ever go to standards, she does just fine with her Nigerians without over-uddering.

It really was a shame. I hope that over-uddering doesn't give them a competitive edge, because it was terrible.

CarolT · #8 06/17/12, 12:15 PM

Wow. I think I would make friends with a judge or learn to become one myself and breed to standard but not show. Exposing animals to diseases like that doesn't sound like doing the best to keep animals in the best condition and producing the best goats. But, that's just my opinion, but sure am glad I don't show. I love my goats too much to torture them

cmharris6002 · #9 06/17/12, 02:09 PM

I haven't been to a show in awhile but I never saw anything as bad as what has been discussed here. What I have found to be far more helpful than showing is to participate in ADGA's linear appraisal program.

For about $250 you can have an ADGA appraiser come to your farm and take you step by step through a detailed evaluation of each of your goats. The goats will receive a score based on how well they compare to the ideal breed standard. These scores become very helpful when selling kids too since the buyer can look at the sire's and dam's scores and predict how well the kid might turn out.

Donna1982 · #10 06/17/12, 02:49 PM

Showing isn't for everyone and I would never look down on someone for not showing. To me a win isn't not important enough to have my goats hurting. I will never allow them to be in pain from a full udder. I do not trust my eyes enough at this point in time to not have herd blindness. I need someone's else opinions thrown in there too. We will do ADGA's linear appraisal in the future. I come from a showing family. We did dogs for years.

CarolT · #11 06/17/12, 05:21 PM

I can understand herd blindness LOL The linear appraisal sounds like a great idea.

I know showing can make a difference in what an animal can bring, but it's been so long since I have attended any kind of show that I imagine I would be saddened by any that involve a living animal now...

I hope I would be wrong, but it seems "natural" isn't the norm any more.

ETA I didn't mean to sound like I looked down on anyone who does show. Like I said, I don't do shows, so have no knowledge of what is or isn't going on and can only go by what I read here. I also know the judges can't keep a good control over keeping diseased animals out. A determined person can do a lot of things we'd never consider

chewie · #12 06/17/12, 07:39 PM

what you described is how our local 4H is run as well. the goat next to us was ears down, alone in the corner, crying pitifully. the next pen from that, many goats had lumps on their necks/jaw areas. then a girl brought in 2 nubs and they were so over uddered the crowd gasped. none of these were sent home, and all got to show even. as far as I could see, none were even talked to about their animals. shameful

I thought 4H was to teach good animal practices, and all I seen was horrible treatment. we won't show anymore. not worth the risk, and altho I know this is just 4H, if this is the way its done here, leave me out! its pretty sad, what is that all suppose to prove anyhow? who can be the most cruel?

carolt said it well...."natural' isn't the norm anymore. seems like its almost frowned upon!

blujenes · #13 06/17/12, 08:13 PM

I;m so sorry you had such a horrible experience! I have to say that they aren't all like that, though. I've only been to a few shows, but I haven't really seen anything like that. The last one I went to, the goats were all really nice, and though their bags were HUGE, none were streaming milk or had thier teats taped. I wouldn't give up on shows just yet, though.

chamoisee · #14 06/18/12, 12:05 PM

You do not have to udder them up that tightly in order to do well in the show. Truth be told, does that are overuddered do not stand well, they tend to be hunched up, look like they are in pain, and don't move as smoothly as does who are full but not in pain. I typically uddered mine with 12-14 hours of milk. Friends would tell me the night before that my does wouldn't be full enough for the show because I hadn't milked yet (they tended to milk several hours before I did the night before the show).....ah, the joys of dam raising... If mine started leaking, I milked them out a little. Never used teat tape or glue.

saanengirl · #15 06/18/12, 02:07 PM

There are quite a few judges who will place a goat back for being over-uddered. I have taped teats, but only on does that had huge orifices and would leak long before being full (or does that tended to lay down on one side and start spewing milk because of the pressure of their body weight, not from being over-uddered).

You want the udder to be full enough to show the area of attachment and capacity but still soft enough to have good texture.

mrs.H · #16 06/18/12, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saanengirl

There are quite a few judges who will place a goat back for being over-uddered. I have taped teats, but only on does that had huge orifices and would leak long before being full (or does that tended to lay down on one side and start spewing milk because of the pressure of their body weight, not from being over-uddered).

You want the udder to be full enough to show the area of attachment and capacity but still soft enough to have good texture.

I have an image of a marble goat statue squirting

milk instead of water!

ozark_jewels · #17 06/24/12, 11:22 PM

There are judges who will loudly berate you for taking an over-uddered doe into the ring. Believe me, its embarrasing if your doe is over-uddered and the judge calls you on it!
I only had over-uddered does once and I swear, it wasn't my fault! Dairy goat shows should be in the morning or evening, this way the udders are naturally full. This time, the dairy show was scheduled to start at 1:00 pm. So that morning I milked my does out halfway. Problem is, they ran behind and my girls didn't hit the ring until much later than that. In cases like that, its a juggling act, milking out a little here and there to try and keep the udder at the proper fullness. Too much, they don't show well. Too little they don'y show well.....Its such a pain.
No, they are NOT supposed to be over-uddered, but sometimes it happens by accident.
Sometimes its on purpose.

wintrrwolf · #18 06/25/12, 03:15 PM

wow was reading the guide for possible entering a few of my nubs in the missouri state fair in sedalia... if that isn't scary enough (parking here, camping there, livestock over yonders) and now this...I think maybe keeping mine at home and safe and me sane is a better idea. Might check into the linear appraisal though.

chamoisee · #19 06/25/12, 03:23 PM

If they require health certificates, you will not have to worry about abscesses. The shows that let anyone in without scrutiny are the ones to worry about. Also, some places will allow you to keep your stock in the trailer, especially if it is a one day show and not a fair.

Donna1982 · #20 06/25/12, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wintrrwolf

wow was reading the guide for possible entering a few of my nubs in the missouri state fair in sedalia... if that isn't scary enough (parking here, camping there, livestock over yonders) and now this...I think maybe keeping mine at home and safe and me sane is a better idea. Might check into the linear appraisal though.

So far all the shows we have been to state fairs are the only ones that tell you were to park and all that good stuff. We don't take a trailer so I don't worry about that, camping I sleep in a stall next to my goats. I will not leave their side for more then a couple hours and the only way I leave is because our friends show too and they are there to watch out for them. Last year at the Tulsa State fair someone walked off with a bull. That is one of the reasons after you unload your animals you drop your trailer some place else. With anything you are going to have bad seeds who don't care about anything but that big win. Winning is great but for me I do it to better my herd and its fun.