Two kids on the ground, how long can they go without sucking?

[nathan104]

Well, our oldest boer goat finally dropped her kids today. She had two beutiful doelings. She had them around 7pm this evening. She still has a thick line of afterbirth hanging out that seems to be bothering her. Her bag is very large, and she keeps lifting her back legs, I think trying to kick the afterbirth. It seems to be bothering her so much she wont stand still long enough for the kids to suck. They have tried, but seem to be searching way to high on her side, her bag is real low to the ground. We grabbed her and I attempted to hold her as my wife tried to get the doelings to latch on. Had to hold her back leg as she kept trying to lift it and kick. She got one of them to grab onto a teet for just a few seconds, but mama goat just kept moving too much. How long can the kids go without sucking for the first time? I know I shouldnt pull the afterbirth out. I squeezed a teat and the yellowish looking colostrum is there. What to do? Its hard not to worry about it. This is only our second time with a goat kidding.

[chamoisee]

You should put her on a milking stand or else tie her into a conrer and force her to nurse them so that they at least get one good nursing in. The suckling will also release oxytocin into her bloodstream, which will contract the uterus, causing her to expel the placenta, and oxytocin is also the bonding hormone.

[KrisD]

Personally I would take some dental floss and tie it tight around the afterbirth like you were tying off an umbilical cord and cut the hanging afterbirth just below the cut. You may want to tie it more then once, this will relieve her of something annoying hanging from her. I would also milk out the doe some and put it in a bottle (I use a regular baby bottle) and give the kids a good long drink. Once the after birth isn't bothering her she may let he kids drink. If not rub some afterbirth on the kids so they smell like her, let her lick it off them. She needs to bond with them before you end up with bottle babies. If holding her doesn't work then you will be bottle feeding for a while until she "gets it". I do not separate mom and kids unless she is out wright trying to hurt them.

[nathan104]

How long is it safe to let them go? Do we need to go out there now at midnight and try this or will they be fine trying on there own until tomorrow?

[chamoisee]

NO, they need to eat right now. With every hour that passes, they are less able to assimilate the antibodies in the colostrum.

[Goat Servant]

Do like Kris has said, if not tie a knot in the string. That thing really annoys some does.
Just get a 3 cc sryinge, milk into it, feed to babies into side of mouth. Do as much as they will take.
I bet all will be well by the time you read this.

[prairiedog]

Are you sure she is done and there is not a stuck kid?

[DixyDoodle]

Originally Posted by prairiedog

Are you sure she is done and there is not a stuck kid?

I was thinking this also, is it possible there is a kid in there that is not able to come out. Perhaps she is kicking because she feels odd pressure from a misaligned kid.

[nathan104]

Sorry I didnt reply last night. After being out there past midnight we went to bed.

We got her up in the stanchion and got both the little ones to latch on and they both sucked a good few minutes. Took the dental floss out there to deal with the afterbirth annd ended up letting her out of the stanchion before remembering so decided we would deal with it in the daytime.

Went out there this morning And she has both the kids hid on a hollowed out tree. She still has the afterbirth hanging so will get out there and tie it off and trim it here in a bit. As for a stuck kid, I felt inside her the length of my finger and didnt feel anything.

Hopefully all is well.

[chamoisee]

I personally would not trim the afterbirth, because the weight of it hanging will assist in getting it out of there. And, You will need to go in (or have your wife go in if her hands are smaller?) to the wrist at least. If there is a kid stuck sideways or with the head back, you won't be able to feel it close to the opening but the doe could get infected and die. Also, if it is dead, it gets very swollen, VERY smelly (massive understatement) and threatens to pull apart and dislocate in your hands as you pull it, the more time that goes by....so it is best to check now, just in case.

It is really good to hear that the kids are both nursing though.

[nathan104]

She is letting them nurse today, but only on one side. Any time they try to nurse on the other side, she kicks, That side is real big, I held her down and milked that side about 25 squirts. Not sure why she doesnt want them messing with that teat. Anything I should do about that? They are just having to take turns on the one side.

She is also still contracting and pushing. She pawed the ground a bit, laid down and would push every ten minutes or so. Probably a cup full of clear fluid came out when she pushed.

[chamoisee]

Yeah, probably there is still a kid inside. Someone should go in and pull it right away before matters get ugly.

[nathan104]

My wife tried checking, couldnt get in all the way to her wrist, maybe middle of her hand. Neither of us have small hands.

Could she just be trying to expel the rest of the sfterbirth and fluid?

[andabigmac]

Did you try bouncing her?

[mekasmom]

Chances are the kid is dead by now, so you will have to just pull it. She will die if you don't get the last kid out. I would tie her up and make her let the living kids nurse. That will cause her to contract stronger to help push out the last kid if you can straighten it. But, as I said, by now the kid is probably expired.

[chamoisee]

Do you have children? If not, then whoever has the smallest hands will have to do it. There probably would not be a gush of fluid unless there's another kid...Try greasing up all the of your hand and forearm before you go in, that helps. The hand needs to be shaped into a cone. If it is dead and doesn't pull back and resist when you pull on a limb, it's probably dead. It will be easiest to pull by the rear legs, that way you don't have to position a head with a floppy neck.

[nathan104]

Well, we just went out and checked. My 11 year old daughter was gung ho so we lubed her up and she went in. She went in just past the wrist. She said she didnt feel anything hard of hairy, the only thing she felt was like the size of a thumb, was squishy and attached to the wall. Guessing that was some afterbirth still attached in there.


Im not sure what bumping her means, will have to look that up.

We will just have to seee how she is doing tomorrow and if she is still acting strange, will give me some antibiotics.

[andabigmac]

When I bounce I straddle the doe backwards so I'm facing her tail. Then I "bounce" her belly up by putting my arms around her so my hands are flat on her belly and lifting kind of like a soft Heimlich. If there is a baby in there it will feel like a cantaloupe or a hard mass in there. Don't do it too hard or you could hurt her internally. I'm sure someone can do a better job of explaining this. I'm more of a shower than an explainer.

[Backfourty,MI.]

If you have some CMPK on hand give her that, that will also help her expel the after birth. If you don't have the injectable CMPK from the vet TSC carries a liquid Calcium/magnesium that I'd get & give her about 20 or 30 cc.

Hope she's doing alright & she's letting the kids nurse.

If 1 side of her teat/udder is engorged or even overly full it may be uncomfortable for her to let the kids nurse off that side. I'd milk that side out completely & then let the kids on that side & see if she doesn't act better about it.

[chamoisee]

Good! I really admire your daughter for that- kudos to her! Hopefully it is just the afterbirth then. It's just...I've had to pull dead kids I didn't know were in there and I like to spare other people that experience if I can. It is THE most disgusting thing...The more the kids nurse, the more that uterus will contract and push the afterbirth out.