Cocci making me Kookie. Have question.

bwanaswan · #1 05/23/12, 02:25 PM

All my kids have had at least their 2nd round of Albon and and only one showed positive fecal for cocci during that time. That was knocked out in the 2nd round I am pretty sure since the scours went away almost over night and he was vigorous again.

Now I am 3 days short of what would be the next round of Albon....the last I pray God ....and three of my boys have cocci according to the fecal sample I brought to the Vet. They started scouring late last night and I would have guessed he would have told me they needed to be wormed not cocci.

The Vet suggested I put them on Corid and not Albon because he felt that Albon wouldn't be effective on cocci at this particular stage.
BTW I have never been a big fan of Corid.

What to do?

Maybe I have been using the wrong dosage? I use the Albon 12.5% at a rate of .64cc per pound and I must say I think if anything it seems a little overkill.

Would you switch to Corid from Albon or stick the course with the Albon?

So I am not screwing up. What is the proper dosage on Corid for those who have had good luck with it?

Thanks for your time,

Chris

Oat Bucket Farm · #2 05/23/12, 03:53 PM

Dimethox 40% injectable (or 40% Albon S.R., make suer if you get the Albon S.R. its 400mg/ml)

For treatment (which is what you need now): 1cc per 5lbs for five days. Followed by 1cc per 10lbs for the next 21 days.

Repeat for prevention in 21 days using 1cc per 5 lbs on day one. Then 1cc per 10lbs for days 2,3,4, and 5.

Corid can be used for prevention only, not treatment. It should be given undiluted at 6.25cc per 25lbs for 5 days.

bwanaswan · #3 05/23/12, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oat Bucket Farm

Dimethox 40% injectable (or 40% Albon S.R., make suer if you get the Albon S.R. its 400mg/ml)

For treatment (which is what you need now): 1cc per 5lbs for five days. Followed by 1cc per 10lbs for the next 21 days.

Repeat for prevention in 21 days using 1cc per 5 lbs on day one. Then 1cc per 10lbs for days 2,3,4, and 5.

Corid can be used for prevention only, not treatment. It should be given undiluted at 6.25cc per 25lbs for 5 days.

Thanks for reply.

So, the Albon 12.5% won't work if it is used at a higher rate to reflect the fact that it is a lower percentage? Just asking since it is all I have and I am guessing it should work if I adjust it up?

I was under the assumption also that Corid is a prevention and I have had bad luck with Corid and white muscle disease (no matter what any Vet has said to the contrary) and I have not been happy.

21 days for treatment? Had always heard 5 days.

The hardest part of this is there is so many different ways to go by so many different sources. You can find a dozen different solutions and with most of this being off label it is SO easy to get confused.
I often worry my goats are gonna die from a misprint.

**mygoat** · #4 05/23/12, 05:17 PM

Sounds like you're using the right dosage. Are you doing it for 5 days straight? Different Cocci meds and doses

I'd do a treatment round using dimethox 40% injectible. Any way you can clean the area the kids are in or move them? I'd do a treatment round then move them the final day if possible. Consider a medicated feed - rumensin in feed mix at rate of 20g per ton. If you're dam raising, consider feeding a rumensin medicated feed the last 6 wks of gestation to your entire doe herd, which will lower the numbers of cocci shed by the adults and thus lower the number of infective cocci in the environment. I feed all my boers/non dairy goats medicated feed until all kids are weaned - the dairies are on non-medicated after they freshen though. They do get medicated the last 6wks of gestation though.

Alternately, try this 'new' drug - looks expensive and you have to get it from australia or canada, but I costed it out and it's actually cheaper than 40% dimethox because it's a SINGLE dose that kills all stages and is HIGHLY effective. Supposedly tastes good too! 1cc per 5.5lbs, given once.

Search Results : HorsePreRace, Your source for injectable vitamins, supplements, and amino amino acid compounds for horses, dogs, greyhounds, alpacas, and camels

bwanaswan · #5 05/23/12, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

Sounds like you're using the right dosage. Are you doing it for 5 days straight? Different Cocci meds and doses

I'd do a treatment round using dimethox 40% injectible. Any way you can clean the area the kids are in or move them? I'd do a treatment round then move them the final day if possible. Consider a medicated feed - rumensin in feed mix at rate of 20g per ton. If you're dam raising, consider feeding a rumensin medicated feed the last 6 wks of gestation to your entire doe herd, which will lower the numbers of cocci shed by the adults and thus lower the number of infective cocci in the environment. I feed all my boers/non dairy goats medicated feed until all kids are weaned - the dairies are on non-medicated after they freshen though. They do get medicated the last 6wks of gestation though.

Alternately, try this 'new' drug - looks expensive and you have to get it from australia or canada, but I costed it out and it's actually cheaper than 40% dimethox because it's a SINGLE dose that kills all stages and is HIGHLY effective. Supposedly tastes good too! 1cc per 5.5lbs, given once.

Search Results : HorsePreRace, Your source for injectable vitamins, supplements, and amino amino acid compounds for horses, dogs, greyhounds, alpacas, and camels

I have always done the 5 days in the past. 21 days as suggested before sounds a little long but what do I know.

Corid confounds me since it doesn't finish the job but is supposed to help build up immunity. I am wondering if I could use them concurrently? Would this be to much of an overload and I worry about the rumen being thrown off?

I would love to purchase the Baycox that is in Aus and Can but have not figured out how to order it or if it is legal to do so.

I keep their pens clean and dry as much as anyone can. I think I keep a cleaner place than any other place I have visited so I don't think that is the problem but I will be extra vigilante.

Thanks,

Chris

dbarjacres · #6 05/23/12, 05:56 PM

I'm dealing with major cocci problems this year and never have before. I dam raise so am kinda lax, usually just doing a 5 day treatment of dimethox 40% and they are good (I have a big pasture), but this year it's not enough, so I ordered the generic Baycox off the horse race site listed above.

Took fecals today, 12 days after the Baycox treatment and was told the kids are loaded with cocci (we don't have diarrhea tho).

Ugh.

**mygoat** · #7 05/23/12, 06:10 PM

The 21 day prevention is used in cattle mainly, and is put in the water and offered as the only water source for 21 days. I believe it would work for goat kids, but it's not done that often. Probably because it's hard to offer JUST the kids ONE source of water while keeping the adults that don't need it (like dairies) out of it. It may work well for weaned kids kept separate from adults though.

I think I read somewhere that it is also light sensitive and/or needs changed daily. Not sure if that goes for sulfadimethoxine (albon/dimethox) or corid, or both. This could be labor intensive and in some cases impossible to do. If I ever get to where my boers are kept separate, I'd like to do the entire herd on 21 day water prevention and see how it works.

If I was having bad cocci problems I'd creep feed all kids with a medicated (rumensin) feed. Feed any goats not milked for human production medicated as well. Be diligent about doing a TREATMENT every 3 wks.

Corid doesn't TREAT a problem. It prevents the oocysts from reaching a 'damaging' life stage by restricting thiamine. It should NOT cause polio when used properly. Because the animal still takes in cocci from environment and maintains a load of immature cocci, natural resistance can build.

Backfourty,MI. · #8 05/23/12, 06:13 PM

I have never had a problem with cocci & I also dam raise but I still always coccidosis prevention with Di-Methox 40%. Last year you couldn't get the 40% so all I could get was the Di-Methox 12.5% in the gallon size & I just use the higher dosage for that one.

bwanaswan · #9 05/23/12, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbarjacres

I'm dealing with major cocci problems this year and never have before. I dam raise so am kinda lax, usually just doing a 5 day treatment of dimethox 40% and they are good (I have a big pasture), but this year it's not enough, so I ordered the generic Baycox off the horse race site listed above.

Took fecals today, 12 days after the Baycox treatment and was told the kids are loaded with cocci (we don't have diarrhea tho).

Ugh.

For us it shouldn't be the problem it has become since it has been so dry. I wonder if the Baycox the Ausies have been using is a higher %, sort of like the 12.5% vs 40% Albon?

Cocci and no diarrhea? Wait for it, wait for it....should be there any time now.

bwanaswan · #10 05/23/12, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backfourty,MI.

I have never had a problem with cocci & I also dam raise but I still always coccidosis prevention with Di-Methox 40%. Last year you couldn't get the 40% so all I could get was the Di-Methox 12.5% in the gallon size & I just use the higher dosage for that one.

Yeah, shouldn't be any difference. Kinda like a beer would be 12.5% and whiskey would be 40%, drink 3 beers to one whiskey...same results.

Still don't understand the Corid thing. Do I want to kill the cocci with the Albon or build up resistance with the Corid?

Backfourty,MI. · #11 05/23/12, 06:29 PM

Normally you'd want to build up resisitance but that's if they have normal cocci & not an overload. Then your treating for them instead of just building resisitance because they are out of control from the way it sounds from your vet & fecal's.

southerngurl · #12 05/23/12, 06:38 PM

The baycox is actually one dose, ONE time. It kills all stages and acts like a vaccine. I don't understand it well, but I understand the damaged parasites stay in the cells giving an immune response.

dbarjacres · #13 05/23/12, 06:47 PM

I did the Baycox one time at the 1cc/5 lbs and it just didn't work apparently. I don't know if I should dose with that again (vet can't tell me because he doesn't even know WTH it is, ugh, as it's not approved here) or do a longer 7 day stint on the 40%? I read somewhere that some breeders are doing 7 days now.

I was so excited to have a 1 day option.

Bambitski · #14 05/23/12, 11:24 PM

I went to thevet because I couldnt stop the cocci from coming back. He gave me mystique ar 1cc per 30 lbs. Cleared up in two days. Wonder meds for us.

rootsandwings · #15 05/24/12, 04:51 AM

Do you give the dimethox injectable orally or inject it?

prairiedog · #16 05/24/12, 06:46 AM

orally

southerngurl · #17 05/24/12, 06:48 AM

Are you still having *symptoms* after the baycox (how long ago?), or just pos Fecals?

Minelson · #18 05/24/12, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bambitski

I went to thevet because I couldnt stop the cocci from coming back. He gave me mystique ar 1cc per 30 lbs. Cleared up in two days. Wonder meds for us.

What is Mystique???

southerngurl · #19 05/24/12, 08:07 AM

Mystique is similar to baycox.

Bambitski · #20 05/24/12, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

What is Mystique???

First off, it is REALLY expensive. For a tube it runs around 200.00. But I only got enough to treat my goats. So, it cost me 25.00.
It is really for horses, but as with most "goat" products it is labeled otherwise but works. There is a study that says that after so long of a herd being treated with this, it kills it out of the herd. The vet and I spoke about this for a while with the conclusion that if the older ones are pooping this cocci out on the ground, after a while it dies off on your property and isn't seen again. There was a 5 year study done on it. I plan on using it again if something comes up before next spring when I will treat all the animals with the baycox. I want to use the baycox because in the long run, it is a TON cheaper than mystique. But one of the goats that I had gotten from Kentucky had a re occuring episode with the cocci this year. The Corid did not prevent it. Twice. So, I got desperate and went to a farm vet that a lot of the farmers here trust. It came to $5.03 per animal to treat, but so worth it in the long run. I have spent tons of money on electrolyte, Corid, Pepto, etc. to try and treat this. And one dose of Mystique and it was gone in two days. We did a fecal and it is gone. Wonderful stuff.
But as said, it is along the same lines as Baycox, just Baycox wasn't readily available. This doeling cost me more than any of the others, and I was desperate.
Minelson, our babies were treated with Baycox. I haven't seen a symptom out of them. I am impressed with it. Because they are in the same area as the doeling who had it and no signs yet. So, apparently it works.