Talk to me about goats...

[ErinP]

So we've decided we simply can not run cows at this point in life. We currently have too many head, not enough grass and the input costs are too high for what we want (Besides, if we're going to sell cow/calf pairs, this is the spring to do it!! Have you seen the cattle market lately?!)

But, the idea of not having productive livestock chafes. So we've been talking about goats. Neither DH or I has ever had much to do with goats. We have friends and neighbors who have them, but that's about as close as we get...

Our perimeter fence is four strand barbed wire. What would you recommend to improve that to keep them off the road and out of the neighbor's?

We also thought it'd be easier to do goats because keeping a billy has got to be easier than keeping a bull. What type of fencing/enclosure would you recommend so far as keeping him separate from does until breeding season? Or do you just run them together all year?

We're talking meat goats because we have a large Hispanic population in our area. But at the same time, I'd like a milker or two for feeding bucket calves (We've been cattle producers our entire lives. We can't just get out of it entirely. lol)
Would you suggest a dual purpose breed? Or get a milk goat specifically and the rest meat goats? Or fibers? Does anyone raise their goats for angora/cashmere?

[MaddieLynn]

First and most important, goats and barbed wire do NOT mix. Goats are kind of like horses... they basically walk around looking for ways to die. Cattle panels are supposed to be good secure fencing.

You can't really have milk, meat, and fiber. If you want milk and meat, get dairy does, breed them to a boer buck, and raise the kids to eat. If you want meat and fiber, get cashmere goats and just use any extras or any that aren't breeding quality for meat. There aren't really any goats out there that will give you milk and fiber, although sometime in the future I personally would love to breed for some.

If you have dairy goats you'll want to keep the buck separate most of the time to keep him from immediately rebreeding does who have kidded. If you are raising boers it's supposed to be ok to let the does kid 2x/year as long as you keep them in good condition.

[Alice In TX/MO]

As mentioned before, barbed wire will NOT keep goats in.

For a general overview on goat decision making, please read:
Fias Co Farm- Goats as Pets

I have had Beefmaster cattle, and now I have goats. Goats are NOT easier or less work. They are MUCH more work. Much. A lot. Just being honest.

[ErinP]

I didn't say goats were easier. If nothing else, fencing alone is more of a hassle.
I said keeping a billy is easier than keeping a bull. But I also don't intend to keep them as pets...
Goats are livestock.

You can't really have milk, meat, and fiber.

I know. That's why I said "or."
Dual purpose refers milk/meat.

Cattle panels are supposed to be good secure fencing.

There is no way I could afford to fence 40 acres with cattle panels!
And I know barbed wire won't keep them in. That's why the question was, "What should I do to improve it?"

[Alice In TX/MO]

Keeping a buck (male goat) is NOT easier than keeping a bull. Trust me. I've had both.

[ErinP]

And our neighbors swear their bucks are much easier than their bulls...

[Cliff]

Agree with Alice. Goats are way more work than cows. Just for physical maintenance. They take a lot more upkeep because they didn't evolve to live the way we make them live. And personality wise.... if there's any possible way for them to get into trouble they will. Yes we have them and have for many years but there are times that I think they are more trouble than they're worth.

We have kiko/nubian crosses just because that's the way it worked out but I like them better than any goats we've had in the past. For your purposes that cross might work, they tend to be big framed goats that grow extremely well. They milk well and the milk is very rich so the kids are husky and grow like crazy. You might be better off with straight meat goats though with some milk goats to feed the calves. Straight kiko would be good or at least kiko/boer crosses. Kikos require much less input than boers in our experience. We had a registered boer herd for about 10 years and just finally got sick of how high maintenance they tend to be. Boers have no worm resistance, kikos do. Boers do much better with feed inputs, kikos don't need it. Boers have hoof issues and tend to need trimming often. For a few pet goats these things are no big deal but for a money making herd they are a deal breaker as far as I am concerned. Lol you know it's bad when you hear vets say that boers look for ways to die. From what I've heard though, the crosses are much hardier.

Are you thinking about having an operation where people can come to your farm and butcher the animals? More money to be made that way but you have to be willing to put up with it and also risk having your place scoped out to have things stolen. Buddy of mine did real well that way till some of the guys decided they didn't need to pay for the goats, they'd just slip by and steal them in the night. Now he has anatolian lgd's. No more thefts.

You will most likely need lgd's to keep your herd safe from coyotes. They're awesome but can come with their own problems. They tend to not be trustworthy till they get past the puppy stage, sometimes they like to "play" with the stock which can turn out badly. So it takes planning and plenty of interaction to get them raised properly. Lol then when they are grown some of them are difficult to keep in if there isn't a large area for them to guard. They want to check out the whole area which might be more than your fenced area

Fencing - you might be able to make what you have work if you can run a couple strands of electric fence also. Then you have the issue of making sure it's hot at all times which includes not allowing garbage to grow up into it to short it. Goats are hard to fence. I swear, anything that you especially value they will find a way to get out and destroy it. They can smell a rose bush 5 miles away I think. They will eat your landscaping and jump all over your vehicles. They will get into the garden if there is any possible way for them to.

My fav saying: Goats are the devil. Yet we still have them. We've gotten used to dealing with them and have good fences and the benefit they supply to the homestead outweighs the pia they are. Usually

Sheep are easier lol. Have you considered sheep? They bring as much at the sale barn as goats do here, sometimes more.

Wow, sorry this was so long - hope some of it can be helpful.

ETA - You could also consider running a mixed herd of goats/sheep as they tend to eat some different things in the pasture.

[ErinP]

Thanks for all the info.

Are you thinking about having an operation where people can come to your farm and butcher the animals?

Nope. They would go to the local butcher or just be sold on the hoof.

Sheep are easier lol. Have you considered sheep?

We have, actually. But goats are more durable than sheep... (Speaking of looking for ways to die. ) But they're more grazers than browsers and that's part of what we're after too, something to offset our horses.

[Cliff]

Ahh horses. Maybe you will have a horse that takes to the goats and you won't need a lgd. We have a horse that loves the goats and stays with them full time.

[wolffeathers]

How far about is the barbed wire spaced? T-posts?

I would first run electric fencing between the barbed wire strands. If you get the wire close enough the barbed wire(especially if on T-posts) would act as a grounding wire.

I started with boers and they were quite hardy, but would jump a 4 foot fence from a stand still. I eventually moved to dairy goats, they never picked up the nasty fence jumping habit and don't like to test the electric fence. After the boers cleared the brush, I cut back to just the dairy girls.

Goats compliment horses very well. A strand of hotwire about 4 feet off the ground will give the goats an area to get away from the horses.

[nzw tom]

I have a six strand electric fence and have not had a problem. The goats are in the pasture with the horse and they get along great. They chase each other and play all the time.

I like goats! I think they are easy to work with and handle. I'm new to the meat goat game, but plan on breeding cross breeds (boer x nubian, Boer x Kiko). I also have some fainting goats (they sell real good here).

I raised pure bred New Zealand White rabbits and purebred Flemish Giants. What I found is that the cross breeds (when i did cross) tended to thrive better, so I am going that way with goats.

Good luck to you

[MaddieLynn]

The part about a barbed wire fence that is dangerous is not them getting through it, it's the possibility for severe injury.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by MaddieLynn

The part about a barbed wire fence that is dangerous is not them getting through it, it's the possibility for severe injury.

You can make that argument for any animal. That's what they've chosen to use so the most cost effective way to deal with the situation is to run electric at least below the bottom strand and between the bottom and second strand. It will be sturdier than a reg. electric fence and they aren't likely mess with it enough to get tangled in it. Barb and electric will eliminate the dratted fence rubbing that ruins regular field fencing, that's a plus.

[Donna1982]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Keeping a buck (male goat) is NOT easier than keeping a bull. Trust me. I've had both.

I have to agree with Alice on this one. I HATE barb wire, I will not use the stuff on our farm if someone paid me to. I have personally seen to many horrible injuries do to barb wire.

We are in the planning stages in putting up different electric fence browsing areas. Our breeder we get our show LaManchas from uses only that with her big girls and has for years with no problem and if I remember correctly she has only three strands.

[Cliff]

Well the buck is not likely to kill you... You have to use caution and be constantly alert around bulls. Not so much around bucks if they were raised correctly and know how to behave. Even if they are horrible they aren't going to easily kill you like a bull can. So I really don't understand the comparison.

They have barb wire and the op seems like an intelligent person. Maybe we shouldn't lecture her on her fence choice, I'm sure she knows and has considered all the arguments. All lecturing will accomplish is to make her sorry she asked about goats in the first place.

[suzyhomemaker09]

If it won't hold water....
It won't hold a goat !!!
I see cattle frequently held by 2 hot wires.....
Goats would laugh at that plow straight through or jump over and precede to eat your most prized bush.

[mrs whodunit]

Keeping a buck is incredibly easier than a bull. The amount of fencing required for a buck is much less than what required for a bull.

I saw large herds of boar goats in Ca kept in with barbed wire and a couple strands of hot wire. Must have worked well as I never saw any out.

[Alice In TX/MO]

My beefmaster bull was a handfed gentle creature, about as big as a small truck, and he never ever thought of challenging a fence or opening a gate.

My bucks have been handfed creatures, but in rut they are stinky insane addled babbling idiots. I had trouble keeping them in with electric net when the does were in heat. But... it was the DOE who opened the gate and let them out of the corral panel fortress that was lined with cattle panels. LOL

Maybe the folks who let their dairy bucks run with the does all the time don't have the same frustrations.

Plus... I think a Boer buck pastured full time with the herd is less likely to be wacky than a dairy buck who only gets to see the females up close once a year, one at a time.

Everyone's experience will vary. We have friends in the Brady, Texas, area who have sheep. They experimented with meat goats, found them a losing proposition in the long run, and went back to sheep.

My veterinarian is a semi-retired bovine lactation expert/consultant. He says Boers look for reasons to die.

[MaddieLynn]

Originally Posted by Cliff

You can make that argument for any animal. That's what they've chosen to use so the most cost effective way to deal with the situation is to run electric at least below the bottom strand and between the bottom and second strand. It will be sturdier than a reg. electric fence and they aren't likely mess with it enough to get tangled in it. Barb and electric will eliminate the dratted fence rubbing that ruins regular field fencing, that's a plus.

Yeah, but cows won't try to climb your fence so they can get on the roof of your chicken house and be King Of The World. And then eat all your flowers.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by MaddieLynn

Yeah, but cows won't try to climb your fence so they can get on the roof of your chicken house and be King Of The World. And then eat all your flowers.

Lol tell me about it. Why do we have goats again??