Would you Buy him?

Backfourty,MI. · #1 05/05/12, 01:04 PM

Now I've found a F3 generation mini nubian buckling in Ohio that is from a disease free tested herd & registered. Although the lady said they don't test for CL because they vaccinate for it! All this talk about CL & the vaccination & here I come across a breeder who actually does vaccinate her herd with it each year.
I"m scared to buy a goat that's vaccinated for it now since it will test positive & I'm afraid it will indeed end up with CL abcesses since being vaccinated.
Am I wrong & would you buy a goat vaccinated with the CL vaccine?
Makes me wonder does she vaccinate for it because at 1 times she had a goat with abcesses? I am becoming paranoid, I just know it & so picky. I don't buy goats & bring them home usually so this is a scarey thing for me so please forgive me acting like a chicken.

where I want to · #2 05/05/12, 01:53 PM

I've never heard of a goat getting CL from a vaccination. I also vaccinated my little herd and the only goat that didn't test cleanly negative was the offspring of the one with CL - none of the non-related goats ever showed a titer. My understanding is that a titer will show when first vaccinated but will fade with time unless the goat is infected.
Why don't you ask her why she chose to vaccinate? Maybe she would allow you to contact her vet? Or maybe someone else might have good info on her reliablity. Has she already vaccinated this buckling?
I'm afraid that I would really, really have to trust someone before I ever took the chance of a CL goat as I had such a horrendeous experience before.
But that is easier said then done I know.

Backfourty,MI. · #3 05/05/12, 02:09 PM

Those are good questions I will email her back & ask her.
Yes, the buckling was born March 6th & she said she does the first CD & T, & vaccinates for CL & Phneumonia at 4 weeks & again at 8 weeks.
I have never bought a goat with CL or CAE & all this talk really makes me nervous too.
I just want to be very careful. I'm sure some of you folks think I'm weird worrying so much but when buying new goats it can be very nerve wracking.

yarrow · #4 05/05/12, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backfourty,MI.

Those are good questions I will email her back & ask her.
Yes, the buckling was born March 6th & she said she does the first CD & T, & vaccinates for CL & Phneumonia at 4 weeks & again at 8 weeks.
I have never bought a goat with CL or CAE & all this talk really makes me nervous too.
I just want to be very careful. I'm sure some of you folks think I'm weird worrying so much but when buying new goats it can be very nerve wracking.

I don't think you are being weird... go slow.. buy clean/stay clean... that's what I've done.. we've had the nubian herd for 8 years. I've been very careful (I'm sure lots of folks found me MORE THEN A TAD BIT WEIRD, when I was shopping).. BUT.. now I have a TOTALLY clean herd (with enough of the bloodlines I want to work with) that as of last week (when I brought home my new Amberwood bucklings..was hoping for a girl, but wanted this breeding, so I took the boys LOL)..
we are now a TOTALLY CLOSED HERD... it means that we will never get to show (even tho now, the entire herd is pretty much not just show quality, but nice enough to actually place!!!) LOL.. I am thinking about doing the private ADGA LA sessions once in a while..just the appraiser at my house, just my herd)..Showing would be fun.. BUT.. a few ribbons and some prize money isn't worth the risk of disease (or even the WORRY that I've brought something home).. there will never be sharing of bucks (I have always been uncomfortable with offing any type of stud services, not even quickies in the driveway) , Now there will be no buying back of does I've sold..(which I've done a couple times in the past.. someone buys one of my gals.. year or so later, can't keep her.. I buy her back and find her another good home.. not anymore)... ONLY vet visits to the farm, no more loading up & going into the clinic (I'm sitting up a room in my soon to be built milkbarn, where we can have c-sections ect done, if need be...) I'll pay the extra for on farm visits (and yes, I have no problem asking a vet, where they've been and what they've been treating LOL)

I will be strict with myself.. NO ONE gets to come back into the herd.. once you leave you are gone... ALL new blood will come in via Ai. It will odd (and I know at times, very sad

) when I see does/doelings that I'd love to purchase, but won't let myself).. buyers will be kept out front and goats brought to them, no one outside our own farm family allowed into the barns/pens (I don't like to offend folks, but I don't want you coming to my farm AFTER you've been to farm a b & c ) I've actually been known to ask people to dip their shoes & to use wipes on their hands... not often, but if I have any sense of unease about where they've been or what they could be carrying in... I'm lucky that I have the ONLY goats in the area now.. I have NO livestock of any kind sharing any of our fence lines. call me paranoid, call me a germ-phob.. I'll sleep well knowing we have done everything we can to not introduce CAE/CL and other cooties, ...... a healthy closed herd was ALWAYS my goal.. it took me longer to get to this point then I had first planned, but I'm excited...

so stand your ground...buy only what you are TOTALLY comfortable buying..
susie, mo ozarks

Backfourty,MI. · #5 05/05/12, 02:53 PM

Thanks Susie, I'm thinking some of these breeders are probably thinking I'm some crazy lady & why did she have to contact me but you made me feel better & Now I know I'm not the only one that folks think may be a little weird or paranoid. Hehehhe!

Minelson · #6 05/05/12, 03:50 PM

Remember you are dealing with goat people so you don't have to worry about sounding crazy

I am seriously thinking about vaccinating for CL. My vet thinks I should. He said that CL is everywhere and there is no avoiding it. He said that it is in the hay!
I just wish there was more info and more people who would share their experience with vaccinating. Yes it is used off label...but so is rabies shots for goats. A lot of people vaccinate for rabies.

yarrow · #7 05/05/12, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

Remember you are dealing with goat people so you don't have to worry about sounding crazy

I am seriously thinking about vaccinating for CL. My vet thinks I should. He said that CL is everywhere and there is no avoiding it. He said that it is in the hay!
I just wish there was more info and more people who would share their experience with vaccinating. Yes it is used off label...but so is rabies shots for goats. A lot of people vaccinate for rabies.

hmmm... did he explain HOW it's in the hay???? I know I buy my hay locally... the hay is cut from hay fields (NOTHING, ever grazes out there)... it's never exposed to goats/sheep/cows ect.. as soon as it's baled, he loads it onto his buggy and begins bringing me loads (8 big bales at a time).. I buy 48 from him.. he spends most of a day, loading/unloading.. it moves into my barn (where NOTHING, but my own CL free goats have ever been)... we hand stuff the feeders with it.. again, no possible CL contamination that I can think of.. am I missing something? isn't this the way most hay is handled? I've never even SEEN a CL abscess in real life.. online pictures, so I know what to watch out for... but never on a real live critter...

susie, mo ozarks

Minelson · #8 05/05/12, 04:15 PM

He said it's in the soil. So it would have to be a pasture that was contaminated either by people shoes or other critters that carry it. I wonder...do deer carry it? He even showed me in his "vet book" where it says it's in the hay because I didn't believe him.

ETA: I suppose it could be on the machinery used to cut the hay too.

Pony · #9 05/05/12, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backfourty,MI.

Thanks Susie, I'm thinking some of these breeders are probably thinking I'm some crazy lady & why did she have to contact me but you made me feel better & Now I know I'm not the only one that folks think may be a little weird or paranoid. Hehehhe!

Who cares if they think you're strange? It's not like you have to use them for a character reference in court or anything.

When it comes to my goaties, I have learned (the hard way) to be picky, paranoid, and weird. VERY weird.

Pony · #10 05/05/12, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

He said it's in the soil. So it would have to be a pasture that was contaminated either by people shoes or other critters that carry it. I wonder...do deer carry it? He even showed me in his "vet book" where it says it's in the hay because I didn't believe him.

ETA: I suppose it could be on the machinery used to cut the hay too.

Yeah, and there are people who still believe that flies carry it, too.

Minelson · #11 05/05/12, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

Yeah, and there are people who still believe that flies carry it, too.

Pony...do you know if deer carry it?

Pony · #12 05/05/12, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

Pony...do you know if deer carry it?

Yeah, it's been seen in white-tailed deer, and I assume that it would be in all of them.

Sheep get it, too.

yarrow · #13 05/05/12, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

Yeah, it's been seen in white-tailed deer, and I assume that it would be in all of them.

Sheep get it, too.

I did think about the deer angle.. but you know.. we have NO deer on the property at all anymore.. the LGDs feel they are a NO NO... the odds of some pus filled deer dripping on a blade of grass in a field that may end up as a blade of grass in my goat's hay (or that some fly happened upon some critter's abscess ... walked around in the pus... flies to my house.. finds one of my goats to walk around on).. if either of those had HIGH chances... I would be SEEING abscesses here, there & everywhere... after all these years.. it's never happened, so I'm not going to worry about it... also not going to vaccinate for something the goats don't have just on the off chance of hay/flies bringing it in... (everyone has to do what makes sense to them... the whole hay..fly coming from somewhere else to attack .. just not one of my fears.. and I have many LOL)

susie, mo ozarks

Minelson · #14 05/05/12, 05:13 PM

I found this but it's from 1973!
http://www.jwildlifedis.org/content/9/1/56.full.pdf

Here is an old thread that coma up when I googled it
Is Eradication Even Possible?

Minelson · #15 05/05/12, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yarrow

I did think about the deer angle.. but you know.. we have NO deer on the property at all anymore.. the LGDs feel they are a NO NO... the odds of some pus filled deer dripping on a blade of grass in a field that may end up as a blade of grass in my goat's hay (or that some fly happened upon some critter's abscess ... walked around in the pus... flies to my house.. finds one of my goats to walk around on).. if either of those had HIGH chances... I would be SEEING abscesses here, there & everywhere... after all these years.. it's never happened, so I'm not going to worry about it... also not going to vaccinate for something the goats don't have just on the off chance of hay/flies bringing it in... (everyone has to do what makes sense to them... the whole hay..fly coming from somewhere else to attack .. just not one of my fears.. and I have many LOL)

susie, mo ozarks

I think your plan is great Yarrow.

and sure sounds like you are doing it "right". We have a lot of deer here and I don't use the same hay supplier every year. I have horses too...I buy 200 bales a year and I have enough trouble finding "perfect hay that will meet my standards" But I WILL be asking about previous sheep access. Sheep are killer on pastures though so I doubt it would come from there. But I will ask. Unless I just vaccinate against it. I don't know what to do. We also have a lot of deer here...on the property and in all the fields. ALSO...I do take the horses to the park to ride...tons of deer and who knows what they are walking through and bringing home. UGH!!!!!!!

Backfourty,MI. · #16 05/05/12, 05:39 PM

Well I just got an email back from the lady after I emailed her with more questions.
She said the reason they vaccinate for CL is because they bought a doeling once(they've had goats 4 years) & a month after having her at their farm she developed an abcess so they isolated her, cut the abcess out before it broke according to directions on the internet & then sent her to the sale barn at a big loss as far as money is concerned so they just thought it was better to vaccinate after that.

So now I'm really scared & not buying that buckling. Thanks for your help everyone. Her goats may be just fine & healthy as can be but, No. I'll know the right Buckling & doelings to get when & IF I find them. At this point it seems like they are far & few between but I'm not giving up.

Minelson · #17 05/05/12, 05:43 PM

That was nice that she was open and honest with you. I would NOT buy the buckling if I was scared of CL. I think you will find one that "feels" perfect for you.

Backfourty,MI. · #18 05/05/12, 06:44 PM

That was very nice & I appreciate her honesty. Now I just have to think of a nice way to tell her without offending her since her goats may very well be all healthy & no more CL, it's just my own hang ups I guess.

where I want to · #19 05/05/12, 06:58 PM

It's something no one will ever know as you can't tell from looking at the pus or abscess whether it is CL or not. It has to be cultured and looked at under the microscope. There are plenty of other ways to have an abscess without having CL. So they decided to play it cautious but it would be better to have had it tested so they knew.
Anyway- if you have bad vibes, you're better off to pass. It would always be in the back of your mind like a little naggy pain otherwise. At least it's true for me.
BTW from my personal experience, it is harder to get CL than you might think. Horse Coryne seems to spread like wildfire but goat Coryne has to work a bit harder to spread.
Not that I want to test it out again.

Backfourty,MI. · #20 05/05/12, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where I want to

It's something no one will ever know as you can't tell from looking at the pus or abscess whether it is CL or not. It has to be cultured and looked at under the microscope. There are plenty of other ways to have an abscess without having CL. So they decided to play it cautious but it would be better to have had it tested so they knew.
Anyway- if you have bad vibes, you're better off to pass. It would always be in the back of your mind like a little naggy pain otherwise. At least it's true for me.
BTW from my personal experience, it is harder to get CL than you might think. Horse Coryne seems to spread like wildfire but goat Coryne has to work a bit harder to spread.
Not that I want to test it out again.

Your exactly right. I wish she'd have had it tested so she'd have known for sure. I'm afraid I would always be looking for abcesses even more than I do now if I brought the little guy home.