Another CL disease question??

Backfourty,MI. · #1 04/30/12, 05:21 PM

I'm just trying to be prepared & learn all I can before I get our new registered & disease tested goats & I heard there is a vaccine for CL.

Does anyone use the vaccine and if so is it a yearly shot and what's it called?

Also if they are CL free & you give the vaccine yearly after that I'm guessing that means they can't get it or am I not correct on that?

If you don't use it why not if it's going to keep the goats healthy?

**mygoat** · #2 04/30/12, 05:53 PM

The reason it's not used often is likely because when tested for the disease, a vaccinated animal WILL test positive. That is the only reason I can fathom for not using it. I'm wondering if more extensive use of the vaccine would lower the case rates for the industry.

The CL vaccine is supposedly very effective in preventing the disease. It has been known to help eliminate the disease from known positive herds - through isolation and vaccination of asymptomatic animals as well as culling those that show signs. Eventually a herd can test 'clean' in future generations. The brand name I'm familiar with is Case-Bac, you can get it from Jeffers. It was backordered for a long time, however.

ALL vaccines can fail, however, most commonly for certain reasons. Excessive exposure to causitive agent, depressed/abnormal immune system are probably the most common. Some are from exposure to a new strain of causitive agent OR to a strain otherwise not protected by the vaccine.

I'm not sure why so few people vaccinate. I've been personally kicking around the idea myself. I KNOW my herd is clean. I've got years of disease results to back up my claims.

If I ever started showing goats, I would probably vaccinate for CL. I'd do anything to prevent the disease.

Alice In TX/MO · #3 04/30/12, 06:07 PM

Buy from clean herds.

The CL vaccine was developed and tested for sheep, not goats.

I'm digging for info. Here's what I have so far, but it's about sheep.
Vaccination:
A vaccine is available and should be considered in management of CL in infected herds. Vaccine should be considered if you're previously described eradication methods haven't worked or failed. Colorado Serum Company is marketing Caseous-DT, an immunoprophylactic product composed of formalin-killed organisms and toxoided culture supernatant fluid. (Also contains toxoids for clostridium perfringens type D and tentanus toxin.) Which has an efficiency of 70-80% in preventing the clinical manifestations of the disease.

The vaccine may cause severe reactions in infected animals, and also interferes with serologic testing for CL.
(from Caseous Lymphadenitis - Goats and Health - GOATWORLD.COM)

NOTE: They are talking about off label use. Read below for the reasons NOT to use it.

Alice In TX/MO · #4 04/30/12, 06:10 PM

Existing vaccine available in the USA is for use with sheep and the manufacturer stresses not using it on goats.
(from Caseous Lymphadenitis)

Commercial vaccines, currently only licensed for use in sheep, reduce the incidence and prevalence of caseous lymphadenitis within a flock, but they neither prevent all new infections nor cure animals already infected.
(from http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...m/bc/10801.htm)

Alice In TX/MO · #5 04/30/12, 06:14 PM

From the company that makes the vaccine for sheep, in reference to the problems seen when it is used with goats.

Caseous lymphadenitis is caused by the bacterial organism Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis. The two vaccines that Colorado Serum Company makes for CLA are licensed for use in sheep only. These two vaccines are also the only two commercially available vaccines for combating CLA in the United States. The vaccine (Case-Bac) is a combination bacterin/toxoid, while Caseous D-T also contains tetanus toxoid and Clostridium perfringens type D toxoid as well.

The main reason why Colorado Serum Company did not have a label for usage of these vaccines in goats is safety. Colorado Serum Company originally tested caseous vaccines in goats and noted varying levels of injection site reactions that went from no reactions to swellings about 14 inches in diameter. There would be associated lameness post-vaccination that would last anywhere from 1 to 30 days. All of these reactions would be unacceptable to USDA and therefore Colorado Serum Company never pursued a license in goats. Since Colorado Serum Company was unhappy with the safety profile of these vaccines in goats, we never pursued any further efficacy testing in goats.

..::VET'S CORNER//CLA in Goats::..

Ford Zoo · #6 04/30/12, 06:16 PM

To my understanding the CL vaccine is a live vaccine, therefore you are introducing your animal to the disease and they will always test positive. Per the Colorado Serum Company's website:
The main reason why Colorado Serum Company did not have a label for usage of these vaccines in goats is safety. Colorado Serum Company originally tested caseous vaccines in goats and noted varying levels of injection site reactions that went from no reactions to swellings about 14 inches in diameter. There would be associated lameness post-vaccination that would last anywhere from 1 to 30 days. All of these reactions would be unacceptable to USDA and therefore Colorado Serum Company never pursued a license in goats. Since Colorado Serum Company was unhappy with the safety profile of these vaccines in goats, we never pursued any further efficacy testing in goats. Over the years Colorado Serum Company has also received numerous calls from the field from people who have used this vaccine off label in goats. A fair percentage of vaccinated goats will develop a fever and become lethargic for a period of days. These goats will sometimes go off feed or have a reduction of feed intake. Milking does can have a decrease in milk production. Vaccinating pregnant animals can increase the risk factors. As in sheep, vaccinating goats that already have CLA will do absolutely no good and will only make the above-mentioned reactions worse. So you can see why we cannot recommend vaccinating goats with these vaccines.

I know goat people that use this, but I just don't like the risk.

Ford Zoo · #7 04/30/12, 06:17 PM

Here's a link to the complete atricle on CSC website:
..::VET'S CORNER//CLA in Goats::..

Ford Zoo · #8 04/30/12, 06:18 PM

You beat me to it Alice!!

Alice In TX/MO · #9 04/30/12, 06:20 PM

Two great minds..... and Google experts!

Minelson · #10 04/30/12, 06:21 PM

How can anybody really "know" if a herd is clean though...Since it can manifest at anytime and the blood test is unreliable for positive OR negative??? Since it is such an awful sounding disease you would think most people would use what ever they could to prevent it. It sounds a bit like the Lymes disease vx for dogs....it may work, may not. But if I lived in a high tick area you bet I would use it just in case it would help?
I use the Pneumonia vx even though I have a totally closed herd (of 3 lol) because I would kick myself from here to China if any of my goats got Pneumonia when it could have been avoided from a simple vx. I'm wondering if I should vx against CL since it sounds like such an awful disease...and the only drawback is that it would show up in a blood test as positive...and that test isn't even reliable???? I don't get it. Thanks Katie for bringing this up!

Minelson · #11 04/30/12, 06:27 PM

Quote from link that Alice posted...
"CL is a fact of life in goats (and sheep). If you don't have it yet, you will have it. You don't have to own or buy infected goats; flies can carry the bacteria from nearby infected animals and bring it to your goats. Unless you want to destroy goats that can be salvaged and utilized, Formalin makes a good partner in controlling CL ."

Pretty scary stuff !

Ford Zoo · #12 04/30/12, 06:28 PM

Since the overall goat community seems so large, I wish all the registries would pull together and get someone to spend the time to truely study and actually develop of vaccine for this. States have worked to eradicate other livestock diseases, they need to realize that this also has safety issues for humans and can create economical impacts for farmers.

Minelson · #13 04/30/12, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford Zoo

Here's a link to the complete atricle on CSC website:
..::VET'S CORNER//CLA in Goats::..

But this article is from 2002???

Minelson · #14 04/30/12, 06:36 PM

And any horse vaccine can have the same results with lethargy and swelling..but they still vaccinate. Every time I worm my goats I am doing it off label.
My vet whole hardily recommends using the CL vx on goats. They are just covering their butts in his opinion.

Ford Zoo · #15 04/30/12, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

But this article is from 2002???

Oops! I looked for a date and didn't see one. Wonder if they have updated info?

Alice In TX/MO · #16 04/30/12, 07:31 PM

Formalin is NOT a solution for CL as mentioned in the quote above. That's like saying popping a zit cures acne.

Alice In TX/MO · #17 04/30/12, 07:33 PM

The goat community seems large because we (on this board) hang out here and talk goats. Compared to cattle and hogs, we are quite small.

When talking to the Ivomec rep at a farm show, I was told that there's not enough potential return ($$) for the companies to spend the MILLIONS of dollars necessary to develop and test new products for goats and then get them approved by the federal government.

MOST of what we use is off label for this reason.

Backfourty,MI. · #18 04/30/12, 08:21 PM

I plan to buy from clean disease tested herds but it still sounds like if these breeders show me the paperwork for their herd stating no diseases in any of their animals I could still bring home an animal with CL, am I understanding this correctly?

So it sounds like not many folks & most likely no one here uses the vaccine & you just keep a close eye out for any abcesses?
Another words when breeders are tested their herds they are most likely not doing a CL test anyways because the test is costly & really not accurate.

So you all just do testing for CAE & Johne's yearly & try not to worry about CL? Seems pretty scarey but I guess it doesn't sound like theirs much else we can do other than hope we never have an animal show up with an abcess.

Oh & Alice is my Link/Google queen! Thanks to all of you though for your input & links. really appreciate it & this is how we all learn.

Alice In TX/MO · #19 04/30/12, 08:26 PM

I just test for CAE. My herd and the other herds I come in contact with are free of abscesses. Yes, I'm very careful about where I go and cleaning my shoes if I wind up somewhere that there could be contamination.

I don't share fences with anyone who has goats.

When I had beef cattle in Texas, we went through the annual Brucellosis testing and had a Brucellosis free herd. Again, there were no other cattle herds along our fence lines. That good experience with keeping a clean herd is probably part of why I don't worry about CL. There has to be a source of contamination in order to infect your herd, and if you are bio-secure, don't worry about it.

Backfourty,MI. · #20 04/30/12, 08:30 PM

We have 40 acres & no neighbors so I don't share a fence line with any other animals, etc. either. Thanks Alice you made me feel better.

Do you draw your own blood for the CAE test or have the vet come out to do it? I've never done that yet so may have to have a vet out to do it first so I can watch.