Neurological disease in doeling

Rechellef · #1 04/16/12, 12:31 PM

I have a LaMancha doeling who is 9 days old. I found her stiff in the pasture and foaming at the mouth and a temp of 106. I ran her in to the house and gave her 1/2 cc of Banamine and 1 cc of Combi-Pen 48. I rushed her to a vet (not mine he wasn't available) and it is obviously something neurological. She is stiffening, eyes twitching and head tossed back. The vet gave her Nuflor and LA-200 to hopefully get through the blood/brain barrier. He also tubbed her some fluids so she can make it through tonight (of she does). She was disbudded 2 days ago and he didn't see anything abnormal about her horn buds and she was fine until about 2 hours ago. She can't stand and I have a distinct feeling I am going to lose her. Does anyone have a clue as to what this could be?! She is not eating solids at this point, but goats are curious so could it be listeria?! She is my only purebred doeling, so I am especially bummed at this point and in tears. I know this sounds awful, but it would have been better if it were one of my bucklings and not her.

Oh, I was able to talk to Alice (thank you again sweetie) and we are both a little stumped.

Right now she is in the house in a dog crate, but I am open to suggestions and possibilities as to what it could be or what else to do.

beccachow · #2 04/16/12, 12:55 PM

Bumping. Hope someone can get some answers.

yarrow · #3 04/16/12, 01:00 PM

If he thinks it neurological, I wonder why he didn't give her any dex? what kind of *fluids* did he tube?? at this age she should never have anything except milk tubed.. she may well scour depending on what/how much he gave her.. but that won't be a biggie to correct.. (fluids would be better given under the skin - I create sort of a *buffalo hump* between the shoulders) With her running that type of temp.. she could be having Febrile seizures.. At 9 days, I'd guess an infection (probably Pneumonia)... The Nuflor would be your drug of choice (Banamine is excellent, not only for bringing down her temp. but to lessen scar tissue in her lungs ect)... Is the stiffness staying?? or is it coming and going like a seizure? I've never seen listereia in this young of a kid, but any type of infection is possible...
If she were mine.. I'd continue with Nuflor & Banamine EVERYDAY.. I'd be tubing goat milk and giving Ringers sub-q..

good luck, I know how hard it is to have a little one so suddenly ill
susie, mo ozarks

**mygoat** · #4 04/16/12, 02:23 PM

Dexamethasone and banamine. These will decrease inflamation and decrease pain no matter what is actually going on.

USUALLY heat meningitis (brain tissue swelling due to disbudding) arises faster than 2 days after disbudding, IMO. I've had it happen when I disbudded for a friend - we used a long extension cord and the iron wasn't heating well. Usually heat meningitis actually is from an iron that doesn't heat well enough - so that you are applying the iron for much too long. I don't think it is from disbudding. If she does die, it may be a good idea to open that skull and see if there is signs of overburning.

Listeria is unlikely - she'd have to get it through her food and she hasn't been eating food that likely has listeria in it.

Another rarer kind of neuro problem with goat kids is CAE - it's rare, but some kids get encephalitis as an effect. Have your goats been CAE tested?

Cliff · #5 04/16/12, 02:26 PM

It certainly sounds neurological. The most likely culprit from what you've said is the disbudding.

Cliff · #6 04/16/12, 02:30 PM

Found this abstract, it doesn't have details about why exactly this happened. But the results are horrible.

Cerebral infarction and meningoencephalitis follow... [N Z Vet J. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

Rechellef · #7 04/16/12, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

Another rarer kind of neuro problem with goat kids is CAE - it's rare, but some kids get encephalitis as an effect. Have your goats been CAE tested?

Yes, her momma has been tested and is CAE negative. My whole herd is tested. I have already treated her with Banamine. I am also treating her with Fortified B-Complex (I don't have pure Thiamine and my feed store is out and the vet out on a call right now) just in case it could be Goat Polio. A friend of mine who raises Boers had a buckling who came down with Polio at less than a week old. She had to dose that kid with Thiamine and penicillin every six hours and it did cure him.

The disbudding iron was red hot and I had an experienced dairy breeder (they have 40+ head and have been doing it for years) disbud for me since I've never actually done it. Her bud area does have a bad smell, but that is normal from what I understand. However, as you mentioned, It could have been a hair too deep and I would not have known until now. I've never autopsied before, so I might have my vet help me with that one.

Her fever is down and her seizures a little less frequent plus she's not holding her head to one side anymore so I am hoping I won't lose her.

**mygoat** · #8 04/16/12, 02:52 PM

Actually I doubt it was the disbudding. If the iron was hot and someone experienced was doing it, it likely went alright. They will smell like burnt hair/skin on the area for a while after disbudding, this is normal.

I call them 'lightly toasted'.

Each side should have been burned only for a handful of seconds, however - perhaps 7-10 seconds max per horn bud.

Keep up with the banamine, vitamin B complex (make sure the dose is correct for treating polio, the B complex has only 100mg per ml, whereas the thiamine injections usually have 200mg/ml.) I'd also give penicillin every 6 hrs, but I doubt it is listeria at this age. Penicillin is NOT required for treating polio, however, the signs of polio and listeria are so similar that you treat for both of them at the same time (penicillin treats listeria, B12 treats polio)

Keep tubing her milk on schedule if she won't eat. You can tube the B12 in her with her milk ration after giving the first dose or two via injection.

Backfourty,MI. · #9 04/16/12, 02:54 PM

I don't have any advice but I wanted to let you know I'll be praying for your little girl & for you. I so hope she makes it.

nehimama · #10 04/16/12, 04:19 PM

I hope & pray she gets better for you!

Rechellef · #11 04/16/12, 05:38 PM

UPDATE: She is taking a downturn. Seizing countless times and breathing is very labored. I can tell when she seizes it is extremely painful. I am giving her until 9-10 tonight and then I am calling the vet and we will have to put her down. I have cried as she is the sweetest baby in the bunch too (besides my bottle nubian). This is my first loss - I am so depressed

Alice In TX/MO · #12 04/16/12, 05:50 PM

It is simply awful. We've lost a couple of bucklings from various issues, and it just doesn't seem to make sense.

beccachow · #13 04/16/12, 05:51 PM

((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))

Rechellef · #14 04/16/12, 05:56 PM

We lost her 10 minutes ago. She kicked her back feet three times and expired. The only thing I am happy about is that she is no longer in pain.

Oat Bucket Farm · #15 04/16/12, 06:05 PM

I'm so sorry.

chamoisee · #16 04/16/12, 06:14 PM

I'm so sorry. Could it possibly have been Floppy Kid Syndrome gone too far to save? I've never lost one, but have heard of others who have. If you start seeing anyone else get weak in the legs, start in with the baking soda. :-(

KrisD · #17 04/16/12, 06:48 PM

So sorry to hear this. I know how heart breaking it is, they're just babies. Big hugs!

Sherry in Iowa · #18 04/16/12, 06:54 PM

Just got on the forum and I am very sorry about your little girl.

Pony · #19 04/16/12, 07:21 PM

I just got here, too. I am so very sorry.

It just hurts to lose them, and it's really hard when it's a doeling...

yarrow · #20 04/16/12, 07:34 PM

so terribly sorry... it always hurts to loose one, but it's much worse when it's a very beloved doeling... big hugs

susie, mo ozarks