"Off" Doe - not eating grain, low milk

bantams · #1 04/13/12, 11:55 PM

Hello,

I never post here because I don't own any goats, but I actually ended up as an intern at a goat dairy, and well, I have a question! I'd appreciate any advice, and I know the farm will too.

This doe has us all stumped.
She kidded 2 or 3 weeks ago (normal birth, twins) in good body condition. Normally she is one of their best milkers (10-14 pounds). Now we're lucky if she gives 6 pounds in a day. She's not old.
She had moderate ketosis for a couple days after kidding; we treated her and she has been negative for 1.5 weeks. Her rumen is usually full and she chews cud. She'll eat hay and greens/grass. But she hardly ever eats any of her grain.
Most of the time she acts almost normal, but other times she'll be depressed and not come up for milking. Tonight she had to be helped onto the stand.

My only thought is an LDA (left displaced abomasum) but I don't know how common this is in goats. Any other thoughts?

Temperature is normal. She's not anemic.

Thank you!

SpiderLegs · #2 04/14/12, 12:35 AM

What are you feeding her?
How did you treat her?
Have you given any CMPK?

bantams · #3 04/14/12, 01:36 AM

All the goats get alfalfa hay and alfalfa pellets at night. On the stand they get 1 quart of dairy goat grain (16%) plus sunflower seeds and a supplement similar to calf manna. Free choice baking soda and salt/mineral. They are on good pasture.

Treatment up to last week (we finally just decided to cut back on everything to see how she would do - she became a depressed after every treatment):
CMPK subQ - 2x daily first several days
Propylene glycol - only the first two days when her ketosis was at its worst
Nutri-drench - 2x daily up until this week
Vit B injection - first week
"Goat Magic" (equal parts corn syrup, corn oil, and molasses; 18 cc 3-5 times per day, only stopped a couple days ago)
Red cell
Probiotics

I think the above list is correct, but I wasn't the one treating her.
I believe our herd manager also gave Excede and Excenel as a precaution.

Thanks for your help!

copperpennykids · #4 04/14/12, 02:05 AM

I think you need to treat her for acidosis. Baking soda drench several times a day in addition to supportive care.

No more propylene glycol. Skip the "Magic". If she is absolutely crashing (not eating at all, you might need to go with the Magic, but personally would take a pass, especially if she is eating hay and/or browse).

No grain. AT ALL.

The Excenel is a good precaution - when did she last receive a round of treatment?

Probiotics - excellent.

B-complex (preferably the fortified) 2X/day. About 5-6ccs.

Here is a standard protocol for suspected acidosis:

NO grain
Baking soda drench
CD Antitoxin (dose dependant on weight - 200# doe gets 50cc)
Naxcel (loading dose and then once a day for at least 5 days 1cc per 50#)
Banamine - half doses twice a day - helps as a smooth muscle relaxer
Kao Pectin to coat the stomach (30cc) - can be done every 4 hours if needed
B vitamins twice a day

Steal a cud, probios, yogurt to start the bacteria back.

I realize that baking soda is offered free choice, but you need to make sure that she gets it, hence the baking soda drench - about a big tsp in 1 cup of water - drench her several times a day with the full amount.

If you don't have antitoxin, do the rest of the protocol. The key here is the baking soda - if she is acidotic, the grain (and all the other goat magic stuff) makes it worse.

At this point she may need the CMPK injectable so every 4-6 hours, especially if she is shaky in the rear legs. She is in metabolic trouble and you need to get her started on the baking soda ASAP.

HTH

IndyGardenGal · #5 04/14/12, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperpennykids

I think you need to treat her for acidosis. Baking soda drench several times a day in addition to supportive care.

No more propylene glycol. Skip the "Magic". If she is absolutely crashing (not eating at all, you might need to go with the Magic, but personally would take a pass, especially if she is eating hay and/or browse).

No grain. AT ALL.

The Excenel is a good precaution - when did she last receive a round of treatment?

Probiotics - excellent.

B-complex (preferably the fortified) 2X/day. About 5-6ccs.

Here is a standard protocol for suspected acidosis:

NO grain
Baking soda drench
CD Antitoxin (dose dependant on weight - 200# doe gets 50cc)
Naxcel (loading dose and then once a day for at least 5 days 1cc per 50#)
Banamine - half doses twice a day - helps as a smooth muscle relaxer
Kao Pectin to coat the stomach (30cc) - can be done every 4 hours if needed
B vitamins twice a day

Steal a cud, probios, yogurt to start the bacteria back.

I realize that baking soda is offered free choice, but you need to make sure that she gets it, hence the baking soda drench - about a big tsp in 1 cup of water - drench her several times a day with the full amount.

If you don't have antitoxin, do the rest of the protocol. The key here is the baking soda - if she is acidotic, the grain (and all the other goat magic stuff) makes it worse.

At this point she may need the CMPK injectable so every 4-6 hours, especially if she is shaky in the rear legs. She is in metabolic trouble and you need to get her started on the baking soda ASAP.

HTH

^^^this^^^

My first thought was acidosis as well. We had a small battle with this and one of our does. I think because our pasture greened up so quickly, and they didn't have enough time to adjust slowly.

Good luck!

Eunice · #6 04/14/12, 08:22 AM

Another thing to check out would be if she has wire. I know it isn't common in goats like it is in cows, but good friend had a goat much like this one that did have a wire. It took some work to convince the vet that was the situation, but once wire was surgically removed, she did great.

Lizza · #7 04/14/12, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperpennykids

I think you need to treat her for acidosis. Baking soda drench several times a day in addition to supportive care.

No more propylene glycol. Skip the "Magic". If she is absolutely crashing (not eating at all, you might need to go with the Magic, but personally would take a pass, especially if she is eating hay and/or browse).

No grain. AT ALL.

The Excenel is a good precaution - when did she last receive a round of treatment?

Probiotics - excellent.

B-complex (preferably the fortified) 2X/day. About 5-6ccs.

Here is a standard protocol for suspected acidosis:

NO grain
Baking soda drench
CD Antitoxin (dose dependant on weight - 200# doe gets 50cc)
Naxcel (loading dose and then once a day for at least 5 days 1cc per 50#)
Banamine - half doses twice a day - helps as a smooth muscle relaxer
Kao Pectin to coat the stomach (30cc) - can be done every 4 hours if needed
B vitamins twice a day

Steal a cud, probios, yogurt to start the bacteria back.

I realize that baking soda is offered free choice, but you need to make sure that she gets it, hence the baking soda drench - about a big tsp in 1 cup of water - drench her several times a day with the full amount.

If you don't have antitoxin, do the rest of the protocol. The key here is the baking soda - if she is acidotic, the grain (and all the other goat magic stuff) makes it worse.

At this point she may need the CMPK injectable so every 4-6 hours, especially if she is shaky in the rear legs. She is in metabolic trouble and you need to get her started on the baking soda ASAP.

HTH

Great post Penny.

bantams · #8 04/15/12, 04:40 PM

Wow - thank you so much CopperPenny, for your extremely thorough advice.
Our herd manager immediately started her on your list of treatments (yesterday morning).
Unfortunately the doe tested 'high" again on her ketone levels this morning, after tested negative just two days ago. So now they are wondering about whether they should feed grain or not. I was mistaken about her grain consumption originally - she was actually stealing the grain from the two goats on either side of her while she was being milking, and not really eating her own.

Thanks for your help!