Increased foraging abilities in dairy goats

lord lycoperdon · #1 04/01/12, 09:49 PM

Hi. So I'm interested in encouraging better foraging abilities in my dairy goats. I was thinking about crossing my Alpines with a Boer. Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks, Dusty

chamoisee · #2 04/01/12, 10:12 PM

My Alpines were phenomenal foragers. I don't see how they could have been improved upon, except that goats in general will not graze grass down to the ground if they have other stuff to eat.

But...I have to say this, and it will probably irritate some people:

In my experience, dam raised goats forage better than bottle babies do. I have watched the dams take their kids out and encourage them to graze at a very young age. By the time they were at a good weaning age, they were already enthusiastic grazers and browsers. The bottle babies were rather ginger and experimental in their approach to grazing. They just did not take to it the way the dam raised kids did, probably because goats are herd animals and the bottle babies had no dams or adult buddies to show them the ropes.

Bottle raising often has to be done to develop a clean, CAE, CL free herd....but it is not without its disadvantages and in my opinion, should not be a long term practice within a herd, JMHO.

lord lycoperdon · #3 04/01/12, 10:40 PM

Thanks Chamoisee,

I find my Alpines to also be top notch browsers. However, I did a little experiment-- I put some Boer does and Alpine does (not in milk), doelings, and weathers out to browse with no other supplements. I monitored their condition. I had to stop the exeriment and start supplementing before long because the Alpines' condition started to falter.

I know this isn't a controlled experiments but I feel I could never keep my Alpines without supplementation. I know people kept diary animals a couple hundred years ago without trips to the feed store and with hay prices here in N. California I'd like to find out how.

--Dusty

chamoisee · #4 04/01/12, 10:52 PM

Were the does nursing the doelings? And...what kind of pasture and browse? I think it would be possible to have them do well on pasture and browse if they aren't in milk, if there pasture included legumes. Also, dairy goats are naturally lean....but to be honest, the very first thing I would look at here is the worm/cocci load. It is very easy for them to get overloaded with parasites if the pasture is not rotated and left to rest for a while between grazings. I would have to look up the life cycles of the various parasites, but IIRC the ideal length of time that should elapse is about a month?

lord lycoperdon · #5 04/01/12, 10:57 PM

The does where not in milk. Pretty much everything was the same between the Boers and the Alpines.

chamoisee · #6 04/01/12, 11:25 PM

I would look at the worm load then....to be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if dairy goats have lost their worm resistance and Boers are new enough to this country that they still have it. :-(

southerngurl · #7 04/01/12, 11:39 PM

They should keep just fine on pasture alone if not in milk. I agree, worms or something.

LFRJ · #8 04/02/12, 12:13 AM

Not a ton of experience here in either years or variety, but our top knotch forager is our Kiko and Kiko/Boer cross. We understand they're more parasite resistant, so if crossing with a meat animal is part of your plan, you might consider looking into this breed. Aren't the Spanish scrub goats also excellent foragers?

Cliff · #9 04/02/12, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFRJ

Not a ton of experience here in either years or variety, but our top knotch forager is our Kiko and Kiko/Boer cross. We understand they're more parasite resistant, so if crossing with a meat animal is part of your plan, you might consider looking into this breed. Aren't the Spanish scrub goats also excellent foragers?

We have experience with both boer and kiko. Kiko are head and shoulders above the boer as far as parasite resistance. They also grow and maintain much better just on pasture/hay. I would not have another boer. Atm we have mostly nubians but every 3 years or so we bring in a kiko buck. Have one right now actually. In our experience the kiko has even improved the milk quality of the nubians - that's just personal observation, no testing involved. The milk is richer and sweeter.

Alice In TX/MO · #10 04/02/12, 09:14 AM

My veterinarian tried Boers. He said they seemed to look for reasons to die.

Cliff · #11 04/02/12, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

My veterinarian tried Boers. He said they seemed to look for reasons to die.

Lol he is right.

CaliannG · #12 04/02/12, 04:16 PM

My dry Alpines keep condition on browse/pasture alone, but you DO have to watch the worm load, especially if your pasture is short or if you have had wet weather.

Chamoisee is right: bottle babies tend not to forage as well as dam-raised babies. That is why we take the babies out to forage with the adults at about a month old. We call it, "Letting them learn how to be goats from other goats." We wait until they are a month old because, by then, the does don't recognize them and won't let them nurse. It also introduces them to the herd in a nice, open place where they can easily get away if one of the big goats takes a dislike to them.

Unless you have a long-term breeding plan with a goal for a purpose specific animal, I would not cross Boers into your milk lines. As Dona likes to say, "You often end up with animals that don't do *anything* well." What if you end up with a bunch of critters that have Alpine parasite resistances, foraging ability, and carcass with Boer udders, milk production, and health issues? You have then lost a whole lotta years in your program.

Why not concentrate on making hardier animals WITHIN the breed? I know folks that have bred foot rot and parasite resistance into their lines, as well as more feed efficiency.

Foraging is more of a learned skill.