horns or not...ours are horned...you?

[preparing]

NOT looking for an argument...just personal preference.
We have 2 horned does. The doeling that was just kidded will sport horns too.

What do you have and why?

[thaiblue12]

This generally can turn into quite an argument. Each person has their own preferences and way of doing things, whether it be care, feed, disbudding and etc.

I have had horned goats with very few issues. Pixie when in heat and would get her head stuck into the buck's cattle panel fence. I would try to catch it in time and PVC pipe across her horns. I did not always catch it until I would find her head stuck and her bawling, so there are cuts in the fence from where I had to free her. It also mostly likely cause nerve damage in her neck during one of her stuck times which led to a large vet bill, meds, pain and death from the ulcer Pixie was my last horned goat. I had sold the others for various reasons prior to Pixie getting sick and not because they had horns.

One of my first goats a Pygmy/Nigerian cross broke part of hers off, blood, pain and a lot of drama ( from her )

None of my horned goats harmed each other or us humans. I have no fear of horns.

Nor will horns keep them safe from predators. They are still prey, they will still run from the coyotes or whatever and it offers no more protection then being hornless. Does will protect their kids but horns or not they rarely will stand off against a predator, they will snort and run with the rest of the herd, most of the time.

I sell to my market so my goats are disbudded, some are polled. I had a hard time selling 6 dairy goats with horns before I found my current disbudder. I pay him to do it since I cannot, it makes me feel ill. But it bothers me less now, I still cannot do it and have no plans to learn, ick.
People around here do not want goat with horns, either due to 4H requirements, fear, kids being eye level with horns and etc. So my personal choice is disbudding, it sells better, no one needs pvc pipe, my coat is not ripped inside by a goat looking for a treat and etc.

[CaliannG]

I currently have a mixed herd. Some disbudded because they came to me that way. Some horned because they were either born here, or I was able to request they NOT be disbudded when I bought them.

I prefer horns. I think they look better, that they serve a lot of good functions for the goat, and that it is cruel to remove them.

I have not suffered all of the problems I was told I would have in running a mixed herd. My herd queen is my smallest, disbudded doe, I have not had horn related injuries, and no one has gotten themselves tangled up by their horns.

I have suffered scur-related problems. Fought an infection in one doe where it got in there from a knocked off scur. I feel that I am constantly running for iodine and wonder dust on this bleeding scur or that one, and I am terrified of one of them getting a bone infection from a knocked about scur.

Horns are just easier and less worrisome for me. I don't have to worry about a bad disbudding that is either too long and deep, or not long and deep enough. I don't have to worry about infections at disbudding, or later from knocked scurs if they have horns....and, of course, there is the added benefit of horns making great goat handles.

YMMV.

[dosthouhavemilk]

The majority in our herd are naturally Polled (which I breed for) or disbudded. Having said that, we have four does that sport full sets of horns and a doe that sports a unicorn (my friend's first time disbudding and I did not go back later and reburn). Two of the horned does were purchased as mature horned does. The one is ancient and does not get stuck often. The younger one...well, I keep considering removing them. She does get stuck in the hay/grain feeders more regularly. The two young does retained their horns because it was too late to disbud. We have over 100 kids born a year now and sometimes I get behind (rare, but does happen). Since they are Boer cross does I am not as concerned if the time comes to sell them into a new breeding home. We did remove the horns from a mature Boer doe by banding a couple of winters ago. It was either that, sell her or find a dead Fullblood Boer doe hanging in the hay feeder. Well, we also have Cornicopia who has some serious scurs on her from her botched disbudding job (me).
We do not do horns for multiple reasons. Our management does not support horns. We feed through cattle panels for a lot of our feeding. We feed round bales with cattle panels wrapped around them. Our fencing is doubled in some spots. Finding our best wether of the year hanging dead in the hay feeder many years ago put the nail in the horned coffin for our meat wethers. Having a horn break in my hand was another nail in that coffin. Having a sick doe accidentally poke me just below my eye was yet another. No I did not blame her. She had listeriosis, but had she not had her horns there would not have been the potential for blindness. I've seen horned does launch goat kids with their horns (the kids were wearing the ID bands around their necks). I know what horned animals do in a mixed herd (we've had both in the cows on very rare occasions).
The biggest reason, however, is I cannot work horned animals easily. I dose animals by straddling them behind their heads. Horns do not work for that with my body shape. I end up covered in bruises. I'm sure if we ran a horned herd, we would learn how to. I feel I have more control working them on my own when I can clamp them and control their movements rather than relying on clipping them to a fence or having them in a stand of some sort.
Our meat market does not tend to discriminate. We castrate our bucklings, so we have already lost the market that wants unblemished goats.


This is certainly opening a can of worms though. We all come from very different viewpoints...all of them based on experience.
If people can actually just post what they do and why and not get into trying to refute or argue the reasons other mention, it could be a very good thread for everyone. Learning why other people do as they do is a good thing.
Unfortunately, I cannot hold out much hope of that happening.

[preparing]

Thank you all.

I keep forgetting that I could probably have searched this topic and not stirred up old debates.

Sorry. I will try to search before I ask.

[farmmom]

I prefer hornless. All my kids are disbudded by 10 days.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by dosthouhavemilk

This is certainly opening a can of worms though. We all come from very different viewpoints...all of them based on experience.
If people can actually just post what they do and why and not get into trying to refute or argue the reasons other mention, it could be a very good thread for everyone. Learning why other people do as they do is a good thing.
Unfortunately, I cannot hold out much hope of that happening.

I agree wholeheartedly. I am interested in reading about others experiences and why they do things. There doesn't have to be any of the "my way is best" ego garbage involved. Everybody had to figure out what is best in their own situation.

We have a mixed herd at the moment. The way we are set up nobody gets stuck anywhere - well except for that period some young goats go thru where they stick their head thru the fence each and every day till either you do something to stop it or their horns get too big. But in the normal course of events there are no problems. Nobody beats anybody else up with their horns. Wouldn't keep a mean goat whether they had horns or not anyway. We have no little kids around to get injured with horns.

I guess for us it's a combination of having had no problems, trying to do as little intervention with nature as possible, and laziness lol. If there were problems bc of the horns we would not hesitate to disbud.

Cows are a different story - I've never been fond of being too close to our horned dexters. They know they have horns and they know how to use them and they have some wicked ones at that. One head toss and you could be speared lol. We've gotten rid of most of them but for the last 3 years or so we did use a polled bull on them.

[Donna1982]

I used to be pro horns until bfs doeling got horned by monkey. Luckly it was not deep and the next day wr had balls on monkeys head. As of right now any dairy goat will be disbudded. As for bfs boers we will keep horns.

[Goat Servant]

We definitely prefer horns. To me Boers look weird with naked heads. In the early days we had one who liked to get her head stuck in fence, back when we had graduated, not field fence.
On the other hand we had a disbudded yrlng Nub who'd get stuck in the hay rack!! She wasnt very smart.
Her disbudded dam was Queen over all the horned ones.
In the dairy world it's standard practice to disbud.
Boers are pretty laid back. They rarely use horns for anything than back scratching. Or to use someone else's set to rub between hers.
Now if I had some flighty breed with horns that grew straight up I'd probably have a whole different view on the horned vs no horns discussion.

[mygoat]

We prefer hornless because to me, it's easier to manage hornless goats. You can use cheaper fence and don't need specially designed feeders to accomodate them. The way I offer minerals also is much easier to have hornless animals.

That being said, 2 of our minis and 4 of our boers have horns. The boer buckling was 2 weeks old by the time I requested him, and I'd rather have pretty horns than ugly scurs.

Three of our boer does I just recently got from another forum member, have horns. Problem is, our hay feeder in the MAIN pen is not horned-friendly.Our hay feeder is a cattle panel wrapped around a round bale. We'll go around and remove a few strands on the panel to make it better for use with horned goats, and hope that works. They're currently in an iso pen and are eating from a hay feeder that hangs on the cattle panel, and as long as they don't stick their heads through they do OK. I've had to remove a doe a couple times in the past, but not anytime recently so either she doesn't stick her head in or she knows how to get out, now.

Just last weekend I had a fiasco with horns. Our bucks have a small pen, so they stick their heads through to graze out of the pen. They push really hard and managed to pop the fencing loose. Well, Waylon, my horned boer buck, was standing on the fence while the fence came loose. His head was through a hole higher up on the cattle panel. The fence was still attached at the bottom, but loose at the top. He was REALLY stuck in that fencing, I thought he was a goner. My bigger alpine buck that is disbudded, would have never gotten stuck.

That same weekend, my older mini doe who busted her horn about 2 months ago (one is only 1/3 the length of the other) broke the end of the horn open again and she was bleeding like crazy. I'm contimplating taking her to the vet to put her out so we can cut it short and cauterize, as I'm fairly sure the soft sensitive parts of that horn are sticking out.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

We have disbudded goats. It works for us and our management. We have had a horned goat get stuck in the fence. We almost couldn't get him out.

We contemplated at length whether we want horns or not, and it boils down to what works best for us is no horns.

[oz in SC V2.0]

Horns for us,we have Boers.

If we get some dairy goats,we would prefer they have horns too.

If we ever get any cattle,they will have horns,hopefully longhorns.

Sheep do not need to have horns,although if we end up with black bellies,I would want them horned.

Pigs will not have horns.

[Backfourty,MI.]

I feel a lot like Caliann does & we also have a mixed herd here. I prefer that they have horns, I hate scurs which I have a couple with them that I have to cut because the one will curl & tries to grow in the does' head otherwise, & I have a polled doe.

I like the horns, I think they serve many purposes for the goat & we've never had a problem with horns, stuck in the fence or otherwise in all the time we've had them.

This is a touchy subject for a lot of folks though but most of us know we all Love our goats here & we do what we think is best for our goats & our way of management.

[KareninPA]

We have 4 horned goats. I've bred our doe for the 2nd time with plans of selling the babies (4 is enough for us). A friend is planning on taking 2 babies (if she has 2) for her family. I plan to disbud them only because I'd feel sick if one of her girls got hurt. We've never had a problem, but some close calls - sometimes if I'm not paying attention I get a horn too close to my face or eyes. Usually it's our wether bossing the girls around and not caring who's in the way. Reminds me to pay attention! The horns are so beautiful, and I love the sound they make when they clunk their heads together.

[ozark_jewels]

No horns here. Started out with all horned goats. Gradually weeded out the horned ones as I disbudded their doelings and kept them. I breed dairy goats and disbudd the kids, usually at about a week of age or before. For everyday handling, looks, safety, etc. No horns here.
I bred Boers for ten years. I disbudded all my Boer kids and ran a hornless Boer herd. I preferred them that way and so did my buyers.

[mrs whodunit]

Preferably no horns. That said we have a buck that we got as an adult that has horns.

Have a scar that a milking goat getting off the milking stantion gave me as a teenage. Just last week our milkier raised her head while I was opening a gate and got me with her scur twas greatful she didn't have a normal horn.

We disbudded our quintupletes 2 weeks ago, nasty job but at least no horns to worry about

[Dreamgoat Annie]

We have both. Our Boers, our Boer-Nubian wethers, and two horned Nubian wethers share a night paddock with a single polled Sable wether who *thinks* he has horns and is right up at the top of the hierarchy.

Uzzi, our older buck's companion, has horns because I planned to pack with him. Now I can't move him out with any other group because he's a super-sweetie pie with people but hell on other goats. Fortunately he defers to Martok (the buck), so it's not a huge problem.

All of our dairy goats are disbudded. We either bought them from Emily that way or we've taken our kids to her for disbudding. Oh, and Katy the Alpine came disbudded too.

I love the look of horns and really don't mind the constant bruises (my goats are friendly and in my pocket, so I'm constantly being accidentally jabbed). I do worry that since I'm pushing 65, some of my goats may outlive me and I know it's hard to find homes for horned dairy goats, so they get disbudded.

Six of one and half a dozen of the other. I like 'em both ways.

Sue

[lord lycoperdon]

I've heard that goats use their horns to "sweat" does anyone know any more about this?

Thanks
Dusty

[chamoisee]

If I had fiber goats, such as Angoras, I would let them keep their horns. They cannot scratch their backs otherwise, without getting their teeth stuck in their long curly hair. Angora goats are also more sedate and sheeplike than dairy goats. I suppose they could be aggressive but I haven't ever seen it.

With dairy goats, unless you have a legal market for the milk (a dairy for example), a good part of your doe's profit is her kids. If they are horned, they are more or less worthless. Selling them is next to impossible, and getting what they are worth is even less likely. Nobody is going to pay $800 for a horned doe that cannot be shown unless, for example, she is out of absolutely famous parents....such that the buyer could justify the expense of having her dehorned by a vet.

Horned dairy goats use their horns as pry bars to dismantle their surroundings. Equipment that is standard for dairy goats has to be reconfigured or altered for horned goats. Using their horns as handles often encourages them to start using them as weapons. They get caught in fences and when they fight, they can do real damage to one another. They can hurt you without even meaning too, simply by turning their head unexpectedly and catching you in the eye.

And you can't show them, and serious goat people will have a low opinion of your stock...simply because it is horned. I'm not saying this last part is fair, but it's true. If I went to visit a farm to buy a goat and most of the others were horned, my immediate reaction would be to assume that these people also are not CAE/CL tested, etc. Horns are regarded with horror in the world of registered dairy goats.

I know this is very blunt, but it is not meant to be offensive.

[chamoisee]

Originally Posted by lord lycoperdon

I've heard that goats use their horns to "sweat" does anyone know any more about this?

Thanks
Dusty

Heat dissipation. Large Roman noses and enlarged ears are said to serve the same purpose IIRC.