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03/29/12, 08:19 AM
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Metal melter
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jeromesville, Ohio (northcentral)
Posts: 7,152
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Cookie kidded
I'm very sad, yet happy for what we have. I went out this morning to find a fully dried-off little buckskin doeling. Cookie was in the process of passing a large, clotty afterbirth, but I was concerned that there might be others in there since the doeling didn't look all that huge (I bounced her and I went in a bit to see if I felt anything, which I didn't). After she passed the afterbirth, she went to another part of the pen and started pawing and licking. When I went over there, I found a beautiful tri-colored doeling, and a black and white buckling dead. They were fully formed, but had blood coming out of their noses. Does the blood tell what might have happened? And, what about the clotty afterbirth? There were several clots on the outside of it. Mudge's didn't look like that (at least, not that I saw), so I'm just wondering.
Anyway, I haven't seen the doeling nurse yet, so I'm wondering if I should heat up some of Mudge's colostrum and feed it to her. I really don't want to have a bottle baby, but I will if I have to. I have seen her pee twice, does that mean that she has nursed, or do they come out of the womb fully loaded?
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03/29/12, 08:38 AM
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Metal melter
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jeromesville, Ohio (northcentral)
Posts: 7,152
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03/29/12, 09:22 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Oologah Oklahoma
Posts: 3,579
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The picture is beautiful!!! I am so sorry you lost two. It is always hard when that happens.
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03/29/12, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern MD
Posts: 823
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So sorry about the two you lost  The remaining doeling is precious and Cookie looks like a really good mama. I don't have any advice on the other two, but I hope you find out what happened.
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03/29/12, 09:55 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 6,143
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I'm so sorry about the loss of the two. But the live doeling is beautiful!
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03/29/12, 10:02 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,980
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No idea with the blood coming out. Maybe she laid on them or pawed them too hard?
Cute pic, BTW the doeling is a chamoisee not a buckskin (buckskin has a dark cape over the head/neck/shoulders)
__________________
ADGA Nigerian Dwarf and MDGA Mini Mancha goats for show, home use and pets www.dbarjacres.webs.com Located in North central Wisconsin
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03/29/12, 10:03 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: N AL
Posts: 2,226
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Since they swallow the amniotic fluid, yes, they can "pee", however, if she's standing up to do it, I would lean toward her having nursed. I'm no expert, but I would watch for a while. They only grab one or two sucks at a time. Is she hunting the udder? Even a glancing blow can be a suckle. It looks like mom is attentive 
Afterbirth can be very clotty looking, maybe higher numbers makes it look more so? (I don't know, just an idea, hopefully you'll get more input)
So sorry for the ones you (and she) lost Was she a first timer? Maybe had a hard time spreading and it caused head trauma to the first 2? (Again, just what came to mind, I don't really know). So sorry I can't be more help, but wanted to let you know you were heard and we're all here for you.
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03/29/12, 10:21 AM
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WV , hilltop dweller
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,559
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Did the "clots" look like this?? We had a recent thread that identified this as "placental buttons" and normal.
The dead kids..were they as born or had they been cleaned up?? Blood from the mouths of both speakes to injury to me. Were they in a closed stall where nothing else could have gotten in?
Your baby is lovely and I am so sorry for the lost ones.
__________________
" As needs-MUST!!"--- in other words..a gal does what a gal has too!
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03/29/12, 10:35 AM
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Metal melter
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jeromesville, Ohio (northcentral)
Posts: 7,152
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Yes, she's a first freshener. I'm pretty sure they had been cleaned up, although the buckling had a very long cord and some other stuff attached...it was probably 18 inches long.
The clots didn't look like that, bee. It was literal blood clots on the outside.
Thanks for the clarification, dbarjacres! I wasn't sure...that's just the first thing that came to mind.
Sigh...I just wish I would have checked again before milking this morning or stayed out with her all night.
Now...I still haven't seen her nurse. I got Cookie up on the stand and cleaned her up a bit and made sure that the milk was flowing (by the way, her teats are about the size of a pimple!) and it is. I even held the baby up and tried to get her to latch on, but she wasn't having any of it. I warmed up some of Mudge's colostrum and got about an ounce into her, but she didn't want that either. While I was at it, I gave her a pea-sized amount of probios and one of selenium/vitamin E paste. Cookie is eating and drinking, so that makes me happy, but I sure would like to see that little one a bit interested in eating!
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03/29/12, 10:41 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: middle GA
Posts: 16,654
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I'm sorry you lost the two and hope that precious baby and mamma do well.
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03/29/12, 10:43 AM
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Metal melter
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jeromesville, Ohio (northcentral)
Posts: 7,152
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By the way, what nipple do you use for bottle feeding? I have some pritchard nipples, but I can't get them to seal the bottle well enough that it doesn't leak. There is more coming out around the nipple than there is from the end of the nipple.
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03/29/12, 11:23 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 2,822
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I'm sorry, Mammabooh. I'm glad that one made it, and I hope she starts nursing soon. It does salve the tragedy a little. That must have been a horror to stumble upon. We have not had kids yet. I worry so much about it that inside, I think I've resisted getting our does bred. You are braver than I. The little doeling is gorgeous. Sending good thoughts your way.
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03/29/12, 11:38 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: N AL
Posts: 2,226
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I use human baby bottles, myself. You have to make the hole larger than it comes with originally. I also find trying to get them to latch on to a teat is hard. I have to jiggle their rump. That's how mom encourages them, they won't react correctly by trying to hold their head up there. I hold them under the chest, put their head in the right place and jiggle Watch out, they may pee on you LOL Good luck!
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03/29/12, 11:56 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Central Missouri
Posts: 2,028
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It might help to milk out the doe also. It will change the shape of her teat and make it easier to latch on.
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03/29/12, 12:09 PM
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Metal melter
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jeromesville, Ohio (northcentral)
Posts: 7,152
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I'm beginning to think that she is sneaking. I'm most certainly going to keep an eye on her, but I was just out there, and she was sleeping and her tummy seemed to be more full than it was when I left the last time.
I don't know how I didn't notice this before, but she has a white splotch on her right thigh...very cute! I'll try to get pictures of her a bit later today. I'm trying to be vigilant without being obnoxious to them.
It looks like Mudge's girls are wanting to venture outside already. If they do, I'll get pictures of that too! I think it's a bit chilly (it's only 44 degrees right now), so I'm not sure if I'll let them.
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03/29/12, 02:32 PM
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Metal melter
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jeromesville, Ohio (northcentral)
Posts: 7,152
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I THINK I just saw her sneak a little suck. I've seen her pee standing up 4 times and saw her poop once. I'm still having Hubby stop and get a baby bottle on the way home from work. He should be here in about 15 minutes or so.
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03/29/12, 03:53 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Fla
Posts: 803
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If she's got orange poop, then she's getting colostrum - if you haven't given her more than the ounce by bottle you mentioned above, then she probably is nursing. My mantra for reluctant nursers is "check the poop"!
Kitty
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03/29/12, 04:17 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 24,108
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Oh No Mamaboo Thank goodness one is ok and she sure is adorable! Since blood was coming out of their noses I would suspect Cookie fell on them and squished them
(((hugs)))
__________________
Teach only Love...for that is what You are 
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03/29/12, 05:21 PM
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Metal melter
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jeromesville, Ohio (northcentral)
Posts: 7,152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntKitty
If she's got orange poop, then she's getting colostrum - if you haven't given her more than the ounce by bottle you mentioned above, then she probably is nursing. My mantra for reluctant nursers is "check the poop"!
Kitty
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The poop I saw earlier wasn't orange. It was sort of dark brown and smeary. It wasn't as dark as the meconium poop I saw in Mudge's girls.
I'm still not convinced that she's eating. Would she make it this long if she wasn't nursing? I tried again and got maybe 1/2 ounce in her, but she certainly wasn't happy about it.
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03/29/12, 09:32 PM
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Katie
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Twining, Mi.
Posts: 19,930
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If she isn't nursing she will go down & become really weak really quickly. When they are nursing they only suck for a few seconds maybe to start out. I would keep putting her up under Cookie, stay out there & make sure ou see her nursing. Don't push her head but nudge her rear like the momma does when she's nudging them up under her to eat.
The probios paste doesn't do anything for a newborn baby since their rumen is a single stomach at this point & they only drink milk.
She is a little cutie & it looks like Cookie is being a very attentive mother by the picture.
I am truly sorry about the other 2 babies, sounds like maybe she pawed them trying to get them up or something but of course just a guess.
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